Parents try to ban Adlous Huxley and Robert Heinlein
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Master Blaster
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Huck Finn was banned because it uses the N word
as in Ni***r Jim, who was a black slave, and that N word is only allowed in rap songs these days.
In addition it has racial stereotypes of black people, like Jim who happened to be Hucks best friend in the book.
as in Ni***r Jim, who was a black slave, and that N word is only allowed in rap songs these days.
In addition it has racial stereotypes of black people, like Jim who happened to be Hucks best friend in the book.
The usual charge is that it's racist. After all, it frequently uses the N word, and it does accurately portray southern racism during that time in our country. And of course, because Twain was so sarcastic, there's plenty of ammunition to support the idea that the idea behind the book was to support racism, and not to tear it down. Anyone who's even vaguely familiar with irony as a literary form can see the fallacy of calling that book (of all books!) "racist," and yet, the fuel is there for the humor impaired and the windmill-tilting fools to use if they wish.
pax
Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education. -- Alfred Whitney
The problem wasn't that they didn't want their own children to read the book. The problem is that they didn't want anyone's children to read the book in class. At that point they stop being a concerned parent and become an objectionable control-freak.
From the article:
So ... if they don't want their kids to read 'em, they can already select from a list of alternates.
sm
member
Well maybe I'm wierd, but here goes...
I am of the belief that parents should educate , and be involved in the education of children. I also believe children have rights too, I don't recall the Constitution stating one has to reach a certain age before one's rights kick in. I was raised where I could go to my parents to seek answers to questions, regardless of the subject. This extended to immediate family (uncles for example) and some "elders" ( preacher, adult friends of the family, church members, neighbors). My parents and these other persons had /shared what and the how the way my parents wanted me raised (sibs too).
Telling a kid "don't" is a sure way to get a kid to "do". I was encouraged to read, ask questions. I could even do this with teachers,and this was a time with a war going on, assassinations, and racial tensions. Controversial books and topics were discussed and brought out in the open. Kids are gonna seek and wonder,why not be responsible and educate them,instead of a "stranger" educating them.
No, I haven't sired any kids of my own. I did raise 3 sibs. I did have a stepson many years ago. His mom and I were in accordance with this. Any time my sibs or stepson had a question about anything they read or were curious about, I answered. I feel perhaps sometimes some questions may be better answered by a certain gender, then again I never ( or when married) we never put a "wall" up.
Best example : my wife was a nurse, when her son and neice had questions about guns, sex, condoms and tampax we sat them down. I gave the gun safety lesson and answered questions. My wife used a bananna to give the condom demonstration, I used a cantaloupe I anatomatically altered to give the tampax demonstration. The kids sat side by side ( not sequestered like in gym class). We wanted to show and demonstrate it is the responsible parent/adult that teaches. In the real world they would encounter these questions. We felt by doing this, this way, was best. Better than schoolyard scuttlebutt, mis-information, embarrassement later in real life...or getting into trouble. Yep they got a bit red-faced, but you know these kids knew anytime they needed a questions answered they could come to us.
They read "banned books" , questions asked and answered, honest and at a level of their understanding.I/ We encouraged this.
Of course SIL did get real red when daughter came home with condoms...explained to her mom how they worked. *g*
I am of the belief that parents should educate , and be involved in the education of children. I also believe children have rights too, I don't recall the Constitution stating one has to reach a certain age before one's rights kick in. I was raised where I could go to my parents to seek answers to questions, regardless of the subject. This extended to immediate family (uncles for example) and some "elders" ( preacher, adult friends of the family, church members, neighbors). My parents and these other persons had /shared what and the how the way my parents wanted me raised (sibs too).
Telling a kid "don't" is a sure way to get a kid to "do". I was encouraged to read, ask questions. I could even do this with teachers,and this was a time with a war going on, assassinations, and racial tensions. Controversial books and topics were discussed and brought out in the open. Kids are gonna seek and wonder,why not be responsible and educate them,instead of a "stranger" educating them.
No, I haven't sired any kids of my own. I did raise 3 sibs. I did have a stepson many years ago. His mom and I were in accordance with this. Any time my sibs or stepson had a question about anything they read or were curious about, I answered. I feel perhaps sometimes some questions may be better answered by a certain gender, then again I never ( or when married) we never put a "wall" up.
Best example : my wife was a nurse, when her son and neice had questions about guns, sex, condoms and tampax we sat them down. I gave the gun safety lesson and answered questions. My wife used a bananna to give the condom demonstration, I used a cantaloupe I anatomatically altered to give the tampax demonstration. The kids sat side by side ( not sequestered like in gym class). We wanted to show and demonstrate it is the responsible parent/adult that teaches. In the real world they would encounter these questions. We felt by doing this, this way, was best. Better than schoolyard scuttlebutt, mis-information, embarrassement later in real life...or getting into trouble. Yep they got a bit red-faced, but you know these kids knew anytime they needed a questions answered they could come to us.
They read "banned books" , questions asked and answered, honest and at a level of their understanding.I/ We encouraged this.
Of course SIL did get real red when daughter came home with condoms...explained to her mom how they worked. *g*
Edward429451
member
Read it probably 10 times. IIRC, I skipped school to finish it. Great book. Heinlein wasn't a perv, he was a thinking man with eccentric writing style. What it takes to sell books. He had the cajones to write about 'what you're not supposed to talk about'. I'm not sure if there's a Heinlein book that I haven't read. I didn't turn out to be a perv and did turn out to (gasp) believe in God. <shrug>
He sure did love cats though. I'm still lookin for the door into summer...
Another cool quote from Heinlein:
"Luck is how the mediocre account for accomplishments of genius."
RAH (Puppetmasters)
El Tejon
Member
The Texiban on a rampage!
Religion, or the lockstep versions thereof, sure beats thinking.
I take a strong stand against sex and violence in books. That's why the Bible is banned at my house.
Religion, or the lockstep versions thereof, sure beats thinking.
I take a strong stand against sex and violence in books. That's why the Bible is banned at my house.
Dex Sinister
Member
Absolutely. The idea is to let people make up their own minds.
Dex }:>=-
Dex Sinister
Member
Futo Inu said:
You're looking at it wrong: We should hope it would catch on, so the ninnies would wall themselves up inside nice safe cities, and leave the rest of the world to us evil unpredictable sorts with guns!
Dex }:>=-
You're looking at it wrong: We should hope it would catch on, so the ninnies would wall themselves up inside nice safe cities, and leave the rest of the world to us evil unpredictable sorts with guns!
Dex }:>=-
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
If you believe your particular philosophy to be true, whether that is atheism, Christianity, Liberalism, or what have you...then you ought to be certain that the truth can survive in the marketplace of ideas. Banning books, *any* book, just shows that you feel insecure about the validity of your own doctrine or philosophy.
That's why the Christian Bible will be freely available in my house for my children to read. along with the Jewish Talmud, the Koran, and the writings of Robert Heinlein, Mark Twain, C.S.Lewis, George Orwell, Charles Darwin, and everybody else whose ideas they want to know. It's the only way to have them develop their own minds, instead of indoctrinating them.
If I gave them nothing but Heinlein and Ayn Rand to read, I'd be just as selective and indoctrinating as someone who makes their kids read nothing but the Bible and prohibits Harry Potter books in their house. You don't raise healthy minds with indoctrination of any kind.
That's why the Christian Bible will be freely available in my house for my children to read. along with the Jewish Talmud, the Koran, and the writings of Robert Heinlein, Mark Twain, C.S.Lewis, George Orwell, Charles Darwin, and everybody else whose ideas they want to know. It's the only way to have them develop their own minds, instead of indoctrinating them.
If I gave them nothing but Heinlein and Ayn Rand to read, I'd be just as selective and indoctrinating as someone who makes their kids read nothing but the Bible and prohibits Harry Potter books in their house. You don't raise healthy minds with indoctrination of any kind.
nemesis
Member
Hey! I live here!
This is the issue. The School Board has a policy to notify parents of the intended material and to allow them an alternate choice for their children if they find the principal choice unsuitable.
The issue is this. The School Board did not honor its own policy and did not notify the parents of the chosen material. That led to increased attention to the whole event and it took off from there.
Do you GROK?
This is the issue. The School Board has a policy to notify parents of the intended material and to allow them an alternate choice for their children if they find the principal choice unsuitable.
The issue is this. The School Board did not honor its own policy and did not notify the parents of the chosen material. That led to increased attention to the whole event and it took off from there.
Do you GROK?
Brian Dale
Member
Grok? Sure. Are the parents paying attention?
What am I missing?
Would engraved letters to parents have been better? On handmade paper, perhaps? A personal visit by the principal? What is required?
What am I missing?
They've been reading these books in that District for at least ten years. Separate, individual notifications to all parents of each and every book in the curriculum is not how they did things when I was in school, and my parents certainly knew what I was reading. They asked me, and they read the course syllabi and reading lists that were made public.
Would engraved letters to parents have been better? On handmade paper, perhaps? A personal visit by the principal? What is required?
Orthonym
Member
For what it's worth,
I recall reading that RAH was HORRIFIED that that Manson critter named one of his bastards Valentine Michael Smith. "It's just entertainment, folks!"
The Tate-LaBianca murders also got the old gent to clean and load his piece for the first time in years.
I recall reading that RAH was HORRIFIED that that Manson critter named one of his bastards Valentine Michael Smith. "It's just entertainment, folks!"
The Tate-LaBianca murders also got the old gent to clean and load his piece for the first time in years.
You are must be right.
You who have disagreed with me are right, I apologize we poor Texas Subjects should just butt out of the Educational system and let the Upright and proper Texas Teacher Union and other brighter lights of academe run our little schools. <sarcasm off>.
You who have disagreed with me are right, I apologize we poor Texas Subjects should just butt out of the Educational system and let the Upright and proper Texas Teacher Union and other brighter lights of academe run our little schools. <sarcasm off>.
Hey Nestor ... instead of resorting to pedantic sarcasm, why not address the points of those that disagreed with you?
You say that this is just a case of parents getting involved in the school system. I say that this goes beyond that because the parents are not trying to decide what their own children should read, but what everyone else's children should read. As it stands now (and has for some time according to the article) parents can control what books their children are subjected to. How is the system improved by denying that same ability to other parents by banning some of the books on the list?
You say that this is just a case of parents getting involved in the school system. I say that this goes beyond that because the parents are not trying to decide what their own children should read, but what everyone else's children should read. As it stands now (and has for some time according to the article) parents can control what books their children are subjected to. How is the system improved by denying that same ability to other parents by banning some of the books on the list?
Yes cordex I am saying the they have the right and privliage to make an attempt to change what they belive to be a bad decission on the part of the school, and as many on the thread have pointed out the could have chosen an alternate book, by the same token if SIASL was removed completly the parents could still let there kid read it.
I have been trying to maintin the position that it is not if the book is removed or not but that the comments made that to me seem to say that we sould not have the right to effect the dicission of the school board.
I have been trying to maintin the position that it is not if the book is removed or not but that the comments made that to me seem to say that we sould not have the right to effect the dicission of the school board.
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