Penetrating look at oils

[normnip]

I was searching for info on Kroil and how penetrating oil works to lift the fouling up from the barrel surface. Here's a couple of posts I hope y'all find useful.



#1
06-07-2009, 06:29 PM

hvw
WeldingWeb Journeyman Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 170

Homemade penetrating oil

A while back someone posted the results of test on various brands of penetrating oil. The test also included a home made batch made up of transmission fluid and something else I can't remember. Maybe acetone. It was rated very high. I've tried the search function on the boards I frequent and can't find it. Anybody remember the recipe? I'm about to run out of Kroil. Thanks



#9
06-08-2009, 01:41 AM


Jack Olsen
WeldingWeb Foreman Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 550

Re: Homemade penetrating oil

It looks like the original article was in the April/May 2007 issue of Machinists Workshop.
Quote:
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison
test.

*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with
the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
"scientifically rusted" environment.


*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*

None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission
fluid and acetone.*
*Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one
particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now
use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about
as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
The results have been widely quoted on the internet, but the picture in the magazine allegedly shows power steering fluid and not ATF, and according to lbender (who claims to be the author) in this thread, it actually was power steering fluid (mixed with acetone) that they tested with. Lbender begins participating in the thread on its second page.

 

[orionengnr]

Do a search for "Ed's Red". Ah, here we go.

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS #64741-49-9, or may substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka "Varsol")
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

Thank you for the info.
PB Blaster not much better than WD40. Interesting. I've been using PB for several years, but I don't think I'll buy a new can when this one is gone.
I have Kano Aero-Kroil and will use that on rusted fasteners in the future.

Might have to mix up some Ed's Red as well.

 

[dho3]

All you ever need in lubricants is something for as a micro surface lubricant in the form of an oil (a coating that falls into minuscule crevices and reduces friction, wear and tear, a macro lubricant in the form of a grease that also is a friction reducer, but for higher load bearing surfaces and something to prevent rust. Most all oils and greases sold in gun stores expressly for the purpose of being used on firearms are simply variations on the same theme, some better than the other. Of course some are significantly worse than others, such as Rem Oil, which is useful primarily as a basic lubricant. IMHO the best products available for firearm use include lubriplate oil, lubriplate grease, ATF as a rust preventative and synthetic motor oil. Lubriplate is used in the food service industry on machinery exposed to large amounts of water and salt. I learned about this product from a gunsmith named Grant Cunningham at www.grantcunningham.com. The link to the specific article is not working at this time, but he has a great site. Another good site on lubricants is www.bobistheoilguy.com. I have been happy with these products for quite sometime and they are much cheaper than the dedicated products for firearms.

 

[JohnBT]

I'll try the acetone mix, thanks, although I hate the stink and it evaporates rapidly.

I learned about white lithium grease/Lubriplate in the '50s iirc. Everybody in the family had a tube or a can of it for greasing car door hinges, hood latches, etc. We used it on guns sometimes.

RemOil is good for cleaning Remington shotgun trigger groups - spray, soak, shake dry and reinstall. I suppose the manuals still recommend it.

 

[Fleet]

Grease has nothing to do with the ability to bear load, as the common denominator for all greases is the oil it contains, which ranges typically between 70 and 90%. The rest of the grease that is not oil is merely a binding agent, put there so that the oil that actually does the lubricating will stay where you put it.

Be careful with bobistheoilguy...there's as much misinformation there as information.

 

[Shimitup]

Fleet, I respectfully beg to differ as there are many if not most greases that contain load bearing and anti galling elements. Moly, graphite, teflon, lead, sulfur are but a few things in greases to provide (EP) properties. Just one of those things I learned from many years in equipment maintenance.

Take Care

P.S. If you're talking about a journal bearing designed for hydrodynamic flotation, I agree the viscosity of pure mineral oil should do the load bearing once the journal is at operating speed.

 

[dho3]

I'll try the acetone mix, thanks, although I hate the stink and it evaporates rapidly.

I learned about white lithium grease/Lubriplate in the '50s iirc. Everybody in the family had a tube or a can of it for greasing car door hinges, hood latches, etc. We used it on guns sometimes.

RemOil is good for cleaning Remington shotgun trigger groups - spray, soak, shake dry and reinstall. I suppose the manuals still recommend it.

I was specifically referring to the Lubriplate products used in the food service industry that are mineral oil based and contain no lithium whatsoever. And I also have to respectfully disagree. While the use of grease in firearms is primarily to limit migration, grease certainly has the ability to mitigate load bearing and in applications on slides of semi-auto pistols where this is some degree of load bearing created by sheer forces, grease as opposed to oil can be of significant benefit. Just my opinion based on science.

 

[Fleet]

Shimitup, you're correct in there being load bearing greases, just as there are high load bearing oils, ie. gear oils in the ISO 220 - 680 range, which are designed to resist shear at loads exceeding 1 million psi. And, in some instances an oil like this is at the heart of a grease, but not normally. All I'm saying is that grease isn't unique in this, and the choice between the two isn't made on the thought that grease will do a better job because depending on the application it may not. As an example, why do you think a Garand calls for grease in many places v. oil. Has nothing whatever to do with load bearing ability, has everything to do with the lube staying where you put it.
I too have many years in maintenance. I've also had in excess of 80 hours of formal lubricant and lubrication training from an oil company.

 

[Shimitup]

Thanks for the clarification Fleet, indeed I agree.

Take Care