Pennsylvania gun culture....

[nwilliams]

So I'm moving to Pennsylvania in a few months and was wondering what to expect as far as gun culture goes?

Initially I'll be moving in with my brother who lives in King of Prussia, but I'll be looking for work in Philly and probably living in that area.

My Arizona CCL is good for every State I'll be driving through until I hit the PA State line, after that no more concealed carry until I get my PA permit I looked at packing.org and couldn't find anything very negative about PA as far as CCW and general gun ownership, am I right or did I miss something.

I'll be bringing a massive gun collection with me, so are there lots of places to shoot both indoor and out in eastern PA, in particular the Philly area?

Most of my family lives in PA but I grew up in Maine so I've never lived there. So I put a call out to all you THR members that reside there, but anyone can contribute.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Initially I'll be moving in with my brother who lives in King of Prussia

So where in the shopping mall does he live?

 

[nwilliams]

LOL, that's what I thought to when I heard he bought a house there last year. Haven't been to it yet but knowing him its probably not far from the mall.

At least I won't have far to go when the zombies attack!

 

[General Geoff]

I'd like to cordially extend a warm gun owner's welcome to the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. I'm sure you'll love it here.

Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with the Philadelphia area, so I'm not of much help in determining where to go shooting and such. But I'm sure there are lots of places abound.

 

[Cork]

I was raised in PA and have family that remains. The residents I talk to feel it is a gun friendly state but it has much more regulation than in the West and South. The closer to Philly the more liberal.
Some of my family members have CWP's but their were local police interviews of neighbors involved. None were denied. Even with a CWP you cannot have a loaded weapon in your vehicle if it appears you are going hunting. Compared to NY where I also lived it is good.
Cork, happy in Mississippi

 

[slewfoot]

A word to the wise, do not move into the city limits of Philadelphia if you desire to get a CCW/LTCF.

Get a place to live outside the city, get your CCW from the county sheriff and commute to town if you must work there.

Although it is your legal right to be issued a CCW in Philadelphia, you will be in for a paper shuffle and plenty of aggravation in the process.

 

[Bearhands]

There's an indoor range not far from KOP..... French Creek Outfitters ( http://www.frenchcreekoutfitters.com/ ) in the Phoenixville area.... I've shot there a few times and all seemed very professional and basically pretty nice. There are also "gun clubs" in the area with outdoor ranges. I'm sure you can find about out more places @ a place like French Creek. Welcome to Pa!

 

[dodge]

TO the best of my knowledge even if you move to someplace outside of the city and get a CCW you can't carry in the city. PA is a shall issue state so getting a permit is relativily easy, just go to you county sherriff. If you are nlooking to shot there is quite a few places to shot. You can also check out www.pafoa.org for more information. This site is mainly about Pa. gunowners but anybody can join.

 

[Mazeman]

Central PA is pretty gun-tolerant. A lot of hunters and shooters. My brother lives there, and I wouldn't mind if I did.

The big cities on the other hand.... Typical NE liberal attitudes.

Someone once described PA as having "Philly on one end, Pittsburgh on the other end, and Alabama in between".

In my mind, The "Alabama" part is good.

 

[jpk1md]

Get a Florida Non Res Permit and you're good to go in Pa.

From the mouth of the Pa Attorney General http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

 

[geekWithA.45]

Welcome, to my neck of the woods!

PA is the NorthEasts' "best kept secret" with respect to gun friendliness, and has an active and vibrant gun culture.

Flag me when you get into town, I'll introduce you around. You should also consider filing for your out of state carry permit, to smooth over the transition period, especially since you're going to be establishing residency in stages.



FYI, by law, your PA carry permit is perfectly good in PHL, and everywhere else in the state (except casinos, courtrooms, judges chambers, and if the DA's a doink, public schools).

I don't know where people get the idea that PHL is somehow exempt from honoring or issuing carry permits, but I hear that a lot, even as far away as Texas.

Yes, PHL is institutionally bigotted against guns, will drag their feet issuing permits, and will occassionally give a permitee some grief, but the state courts beat them about the head and neck regularly on this topic.

There are many more reasons not to live in PHL city limits, though: Philly wage tax is 4.26%, plus other misc FU fees over and above normal property tax come to about $10k/year on a decent home.

 

[budney]

Someone once described PA as having "Philly on one end, Pittsburgh on the other end, and Alabama in between".

Pittsburgh actually isn't that bad, though. The politicians, like any big city politicians, are relatively anti-gun--the new sheriff changed permit issuance from on-the-spot to requiring the full 45 days before you get it, and vows to arrest anyone who carries at the Pittsburgh airport, even though that's legal.

But Pittsburgh has no special gun laws (unlike Philly), and we peasants are relatively gun-friendly.

--Len.

 

[pacodelahoya]

+1 for what Geek and Budney said , and don't forget that all NFA regulated toys are ok too!!

 

[MEH]

Well unfortunately I can't get my LTCF until I'm 21, but I in my opinion PA is very gun friendly, my parents have permits, my boss has a permit, even my Amish neighbor has a carry permit...

 

[jahwarrior]

PA is one of the most gun friendly states in the country (north of the mason-dixon line). and contrary to popular belief, a cc permit is good in every city, even philly, and there is no limit as to how many firearms you can buy and own. local ordinances cannot, and do not, supercede state law. you don't have to register your guns, and the background checks are pretty fast. i moved here to northeast PA, and getting my cc permit only took and hour. we have reciprocity with many states, there's a list of them at packing.org.

 

[righteousbarbarian]

Overall, PA is a very firearm friendly state. I'm just going to list a few of the less friendly things that I know of. I am not a LEO or Lawyer but from what I understand, open-carrying in Philly is illegal. I hear it also takes several weeks to get a CCL there,whereas it took me 15 minutes in central PA. Another thing is you can't hunt with a semi-auto of any kind (which I think is stupid). I can't think of anything else that stands out right now, but I hope this helps.

When you get here google the "Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association". It's a good group of folks, and we are MANY.

 

[45Badger]

Welcome!

To correct a partial misrepresentation- You cannot hunt DEER with a semi-auto of any kind. You can use plugged (to 3 rounds) semi auto shotguns on some small game.

The ONLY gun hassle is personal sales of handguns need to go through an FFL (meet at the FFL, pay the fee, do the papaerwork, go home happy). Private FTF long gun sales are fine.

And there's a nice little gun show held about 3-4 times a year at the Valley Forge Convention Center, right around the corner from the mall.

My CWP took 5 minutes of paperwork, was issued in a couple weeks.

 

[geekWithA.45]

But Pittsburgh has no special gun laws (unlike Philly), and we peasants are relatively gun-friendly.

PHL has ONE special law: open carry w/out a permit is prohibited. With a permit, it's OK. Open carry in PA is essentially open carry NOT IN A VEHICLE, which is otherwise covered if you have an LTCF.

local ordinances cannot, and do not, supercede state law.

True, with respect to purchase/transfer, and posession. Local ordinances may regulate the DISCHARGE of firearms, which has an impact on gun clubs.

Back in the klinton era, it was common for a coffee klatsch of old biddies to cause all sorts of mayhem for gun clubs down @ town hall.

 

[nwilliams]

Thanks for the help guys, I had a feeling PA was pretty gun friendly and I wouldn't run into too much hassle. As far as Philadelphia goes, I would really prefer to live outside the city and commute in to work.

Get a Florida Non Res Permit and you're good to go in Pa.

I'm actually looking into this as an option. The place where I got my CCL here in Arizona offers a short follow-up course that gives you a UT and FL permit. If I could get my FL permit before I leave I would have reciprocity with PA. But it sounds like I won't have much hassle getting issued a permit outside of Philly if need be.

 

[doubleg]

There are more NRA members in PA and WV than any other part of the country. PA is very gun tolerant but like everywhere else we have some idiot cops and crazy anti-gun people. Once you finish your move maybe drive to Clearfield and check out Grices Gun Shop. They have the largest inventory out of any gun store in PA.

 

[nwilliams]

This is from packing.org's statement about guns in cars, I'm a bit confused with the way this is stated.....

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: 11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.

www.packing.org/state/pennsylvania/

Does this mean that you carry in your vehicle if you have a CCL from any state in the US? So even if I have an Arizona permit that isn't valid in PA, as long as its valid somewhere in the US I can keep a gun in my car? I still plan on getting my PA CCL once I move there, or get a FL permit prior to even moving there, so I don't know if this matters anyway. Just curious as to the nature of this statement.

 

[loadedround]

Nwilliams: You will be warmly welcomed in the gun friendly Commonwealth of Pennsylvania(Pa is not a state). I live in the Valley Forge area which is about 5-10 minutes from King of Prussia. Once you become an established resident, you may apply to the Montgomery County Sheriffs Dept(you will be living in Mont. Co) and it is for five years at cost of 50.00. It is state permit, a shall issue permit and IS recognized by both Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. There is a great shooting club in Lower Providence Township(again 10 min from you) called naturally The Lower Providence Rod and Gun Club that has open enrollment now. First year's membership is 150.00 and a 100.00/yr thereafter. Please email me if you need or want any additional informaton about this area. especially where the good gun dealers are located. [email protected]

 

[captain54]

Geek-

where did you find something with regards to not being able to carry in casinos? I looked for info on this and found none. When the regs were written, there were no casinos in PA so the law did not address them and as far as I have found, the carry laws have not been updated to mention them. I live 10 minutes from Philadelphia Park casino and checked with local PD and they have no information on it. Called the Bucks county sherrif and they said it was legal unless the owners posted it as no firearms allowed which I have not seen any signs with regards to this.

 

[mike101]

Welcome to the Delaware Valley. Unfortunately, I am writing this from the Joisey side of the river. Don't bring your guns here. They will take them from you.

Another reason not to move into the City of Philadelphia, is the fact that the crackheads might kill you for your shoes. Philly has the highest murder rate in the country so far this year. Do bring your guns there.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Geek, et al. have already pretty much covered PA's gun laws. (But I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.) Philadelphia has been experiencing a skyrocketing murder rate this year which has caused them to naturally place the blame on those evil guns. So far, the rest of the state has managed to keep Philly in check. PA's constitutional provision on RKBA is very clear, and the PA Supreme Court takes it very seriously:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be questioned. --Article I, Section 21.

PA's Uniform Firearms Act means that all firearms regulation is preempted by state law, with the exception of discharge of a firearm inside municipal limits.

Concealed pistol (not "weapon") permits are issued by your county sheriff on a "shall issue" basis, after a background check is run by the State Police in Harrisburg. The permits are good for 5 years and there is no training requirement.

Private transfers of rifles and shotguns are legal, but transfers of handguns must go through an FFL.

PA as a whole is Class III friendly, but individual LEOs may not be. If you run into that you can form a corporation, LLC, or trust and avoid the requirement for chief LEO signoff.

Montgomery County (which contains KoP) does have its share of blissninnies due to flight from Philly. That said, there are plenty of us gunnies in MontCo. I live in Plymouth Meeting, about 10 minutes away from KoP and there are several besides me in my subdivision.

Lower Providence Rod & Gun Club will be the closest place for you to shoot if you're in KoP. Great for pistol, trap and archery, OK for rifle.

Slightly OT, but if you can get a job outside of Philadelphia proper, you will avoid the ~4% Philadelphia wage tax that applies to even non-residents, if they work in Philly. Also, car insurance rates for Philly residents are much higher than for residents of the 'burbs. Both of these mean less money for guns and ammo.