People Overestimate Buckshot

[Satasaurus]

I've been doing some research to decide which buckshot I'll be keeping in my home defense shotgun, and while doing so I've realized that people really overestimate it.

It seems like a lot of people go with #00 buckshot just because everyone else does and it's arguably the most well known. I've decided to use #0 buckshot because all the tests I've seen show that it has enough penetration and I would rather have twelve .32 caliber pellets then nine .33 caliber pellets.

People talk all kinds of crap about #0 buckshot and say that it's not effective because of times that it hasn't penetrated far enough at 50 yards. From what I've heard, buckshot is only very effective out to about 25 yards and slugs only out to about 50 yards with an open cylinder shotgun. Personally, past 50 yards I'm just gonna grab my rifle anyways. If I grab my shotgun it's going to be for up close and personal situations only.

Also, I'm not a big fan of the Flight Control buckshot. It just seems to make one big hole at normal buckshot distances which defeats the purpose of buckshot in my opinion. If I want one big hole I'll just use slugs. If I want to shoot further, I'll just use my rifle. I would rather have a decent spread to increase my probability of hitting a vital organ if my shot isn't dead on.

 

[Inebriated]

00 Buck didn't come to be the go-to just by people posting on the internet...

It's been killing bad guys with great effectiveness for many years before the internet was a thing.

 

[Eb1]

Well. I'd rather have 20 .25 caliber pellets in a #3 buckshot from a 20 gauge than 9 00 buck from a 12. So there is another opinion for the mix.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22_2.htm

Read the first page. The 20 gauge #3 penetrates as much as 12 gauge 00 buck, but has 20 rounds vs. 9 rounds, and my 20 gauge is way easier to move handle.

And my smooth bore 12 gauge can shoot foster slugs into 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" groups all day with foster slugs at 100 yards. I don't know where the 50 yard thing came from unless they just can't shoot a bead sight. I have two beads, and I guess that could make it a little more accurate?

 

[Satasaurus]

00 Buck didn't come to be the go-to just by people posting on the internet...

It's been killing bad guys with great effectiveness for many years before the internet was a thing.

I know that, and I didn't mean to imply it that way. I'm just saying that some people are really closed minded and anything other then #00 or #000 buck wont get the job done. Unless you're using specialty buckshot, chances are no buckshot is going to be effective at 50 yards with an open cylinder, especially with heavy clothing.

 

[Eb1]

50 yards with heavy clothing is a little past what the law will allow. I guess unless you are in a fire fight in the street.

 

[Satasaurus]

50 yards with heavy clothing is a little past what the law will allow. I guess unless you are in a fire fight in the street.

I was reading instances where the police were shooting at bad guys at those distances and then people were saying because of that such and such buckshot isn't effective. I've read stories like that with all kinds of buckshot, including a time when someone got hit with #00 and when he went to the hospital and they took his jacket off the pellets fell out.

Like I said, personally, I'm not using a shotgun past 50 yards and I would prefer 50 feet.

 

[DPris]

I am a huge believer in the Federal Flitecontrol loads.
They extend the practical range of 00 Buck out to 40 yards & occasionally farther.

I do not want a rapid or wide spread. It isn't needed up close & reduces longer effective capability.
Denis

 

[improperlyaged]

I have been using 0 buck for a long time for the same reasons you listed. I would use 1 buck if it were more common in my area. But people choose what people choose. I have a friend that absolutely will not even consider using buckshot in the house because he thinks birdshot is the cats meow. Another friend uses 4 buck, whatever, at least its buckshot. Use what you have practiced with and know patterns well in your gun (as long as it is buckshot). Hopefully you never have to use it.

 

[dprice3844444]

house environment,all buckshot will hurt

 

[Satasaurus]

I have been using 0 buck for a long time for the same reasons you listed. I would use 1 buck if it were more common in my area. But people choose what people choose. I have a friend that absolutely will not even consider using buckshot in the house because he thinks birdshot is the cats meow. Another friend uses 4 buck, whatever, at least its buckshot. Use what you have practiced with and know patterns well in your gun (as long as it is buckshot). Hopefully you never have to use it.

Yeah exactly, hopefully I never have to use it and at across the room distances any buckshot should work. I like to stay close to #00 since it's tried and true but I prefer a few more pellets.

Don't even get me started on birdshot ... Every gel test I've seen with it proves that it's not a good idea to use in my opinion. It penetrates around 5" without clothing, barriers, rib cages, etc.

Also, random, but I think that birdshot would be good to use as a shot buffer for buckshot. I'm no expert but I've seen them use some white stuff as buffer and I would imagine that birdshot would be more effective. It would give you the best of both worlds; the massive entry would that birdshot causes and the penetration needed to hit the vitals with the buckshot.

 

[Deus Machina]

I kept #4 as the first few rounds in my HD shotgun for a while. It's supposed to be small enough that drywall will actually slow it down, in case anything misses.
I'm a believer that anything effective will go right through drywall. But, hey, if it loses some energy on the way through, it's worth a shot.

I liked the flight-control rounds I used, but I hardly feel the need for them in the short range in my apartment. Shotguns are hardly a 'cone of death' and three inches or so of spread is just fine.

 

[Brass Fetcher]

I've actually tested buckshot in gelatin at 50 yards.

Is Buckshot lethal at 50 yards? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pIuUrjUIyQ

Though it wasn't tested, #1 buckshot is likely the best all-around buckshot size for self-defense.

 

[Snowdog]

I personally would have titled this tread "Buckshot for HD is Over-Analyzed" because in most cases it is, from a lethality perspective anyway.
I use Fiocchi nickel plated #4 high velocity buck only because I bought a boatload cheap several years ago and it works great for me.
I also bought a few hundred shells of 12-pellet 00b from Nobel Sports and wouldn't mind using them either.

I think at hallway ranges, the differences between how dead an intruder gets from a chest-load of 00b, 0b or even 4b is moot. Dead is dead and all of those options will likely incapacitate within milliseconds of each other.

A far greater advantage is increasing your ability to get your shotgun at the ready and put the buckshot where it needs to go.

Unless you're intention is to endlessly chase the warm 'n fuzzies (and some enjoy that task, more power to them), pick a quality load of buckshot that works in your shotty and call it done. Fret over your training/strategy instead; it's a better investment.

 

[jmr40]

00 Buck didn't come to be the go-to just by people posting on the internet...

It's been killing bad guys with great effectiveness for many years before the internet was a thing.

Buckshot was WAAAAAAY over rated long before the internet. The myth just continues. At least with the internet the truth is slowly getting out. The problem is that some continue to believe in fantasy rather than facts.

 

[Fred Fuller]

To each their own.

Patterning ability in a given load matters far more to me than mere pellet count. Pellets that don't hit what you're shooting at are worse than useless - they're a liability. No matter what size they are.

How do you NOT overestimate whatever load you're shooting? PATTERN IT and PENETRATION TEST IT.

What matters more than the load? THE SHOOTER...

 

[scaatylobo]

Remember shot placement /

No matter what your shooting [ unless we are talking 50 BMG ] the caliber and the number of pellets will not make a real difference IF you do not place the rounds where they will stop the attacker.

At firearms instructors school we fired hundreds and HUNDREDS of rounds of slug & buckshot,ranges were from 3 yards to 50 yards.

I would try at all costs to NOT fire a scattering round [ buck or birdshot ] at anything more than 20 yards.

The possibility of sending pellets down range at unintended targets is unforgivable,AND a lawsuit you don't want to consider.

Aside from the fact ,you need to think about how hard taking an INNOCENT LIFE would be on you and your's.

btw = slugs have a real penetration problem in homes and on the body,expect them to overpenetrate.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I grew up using 00 though #4 buck hunting deer and all those 12 gauge buckshot rounds put meat on the table. We shot deer out to 50 yards.
MA says use what the Police use and my city and county boys use 00 so that is what I use.
As it been said go see which brand and size your gun likes best.
A long time county ME told me he had seen more men killed with shotguns than rifles and pistols combined. YMMV.
My longest shot in this house in 40 feet. So 00 in my 870 will get the job done.

 

[PabloJ]

I would rate 1BK numero uno for home defense use.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

house environment,all buckshot will hurt

Yeah, I have to agree.
If I'm deer hunting in heavy brush behind the house, I use 00 in the 12-gauge.
For HD, the pump 20-gauge is loaded with 3" #3 buckshot. For protecting my home I opt for more pellets vs bigger pellets. The reason is, the goal is different. With deer, you're looking for the quickest, most humane kill possible. With an intruder in the home, you're looking to put him down and out of the fight as quickly as possible. More pellets = more chance of a hit.

That's just my logic. I hope I never have to put it to the test.

 

[bikerdoc]

Before I retired the city had condemned and taken possession of an old house for back taxes. They let the entry team use it as shoot house and then the fire dept did a controled burn.
Learned enough that day to prove OO buck belongs in my HD Mossberg 500.

 

[buck460XVR]

Folks overestimate lots of things when it comes to SD/HD. Most of the time it is how they will react and their accuracy under stress. Thinkin' any SD/HD weapon needs to be effective @ 50 yards means, if you live in a urban/suburb area, you think you will be shooting at a threat not only outside your house, but probably halfway across the neighbors yard. It also means you are probably on the offensive and not just protecting yourself and your loved ones. Happens a lot in the movies....not so much in real life.

As for what one uses for SD/HD, it should be what works best for you, in the firearm it's loaded in, for the majority of scenarios you might encounter. For most of us civilians, this means 3-20 feet. 1-7 yards.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

So, OP, you think that 00 buck is overrated and 0 buck is underrated? Is that what you are trying to say?

Ready availability is also a factor. I don't remember ever having seen 0 buck in the ammo cases, but I see 00 all the time. If store started carrying 0 buck, more people would use it.

I guess that there are more important things to worry about.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I've been doing some research to decide which buckshot I'll be keeping in my home defense shotgun ...
People talk all kinds of crap about #0 buckshot and say that it's not effective because of times that it hasn't penetrated far enough at 50 yards.

How many 50 yard shots do you have inside your house?

Plus, if you are going to make the case for a 50 yard "self defense" shot outside your home, you have better have a pretty d**n good lawyer.

I actually load up with #1 buck in my HD 870. I think that gives a nice tradeoff between pattern density and over-penetration between rooms.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Personally I use plated #00 but would not feet vulnerable with #1 or #0. #4 starts to become marginal for penetration in some conditions but I would never doubt the penetration of #1 or larger at home-defense distances.

Mike

 

[C0untZer0]

The Firearms Tactical Institute report recommends #1 Buck

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances.

A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Part of the issue is finding whatever non- #00 buck load that you think is great. #00 Buck is a lot easier to find than #1 or #0 Buckshot. And as has been mentioned here, there is the issue of any particular load not patterning well with your shotgun.