Perfect Powder Measure - Stop the leak!

[GLOOB]

I got a few new bullets to play with in the mail. I decided to give my Perfect Powder Measure a second chance to help with load development. So I dug it out and played with it to see if it was as bad as I remembered. It was. Leaked like a sieve with ball powders no matter how I cleaned it out and adjusted the screw.

So built a little hopper to catch the leak. It attaches above the powder drop tube. You screw it off, put the powder hopper on, then screw the drop tube back on. The hopper has approx 4-5 grains capacity, I'm guessing. Slapped it back together. And dang. My little leak hopper was filled to capacity after just 30-40 throws of H335! That would be ok for a load dev, I guess, but it still sucked.

So i searched the web, and guy's Midway review stuck out to me. Guy had 2 of them and claimed one of them leaked, but the other one didn't. Reading this made me think the design was sound, but the execution (manufacturing) is where it fell through. So I took a closer look at the problem.

Looking at how the thing works and where mine leaked, it seemed like there's only a small area of the "cone" where good contact is critical. At first, I thought if I sanded down the rest of the cone so that there was better contact in the critical area, it might stop the leaking. But that would be difficult to do, to say the least.

So I slapped a piece of packing tape over the cone where I thought it might be of service. I trimmed away the excess with scissors. Then I cut out the bit of tape that covered half the hole with a razor blade. Stuck it back together, did a few throws which leaked. Adjusted the screw some more and tried again. And DANG! I just dropped 30 throws of H335, and a total of THREE FLAKES fell out into my leak hopper!

[Edit] ... Then I looked, and I realized the powder hopper was empty. Oops. Oh, well, back to the drawing board.

 

[GLOOB]

... And then...SUCCESS!

Well, that was kinda embarrassing. But I guess that was the motivation I needed to fix the PPM for real.

So I took off the tape and mixed up some buffing compound and oil. Put some on the conical joint and put it in, and I worked it around for 10 minutes, 360 degrees. Disassembled and cleaned. Sprayed some graphite into it and set it up again.

Did 30 throws with a FULL hopper of H335. And this time, not a single flake leaked out!

 

[kingmt]

Congratulatetions. I've not used the PPM but it is still interesting. Did you take any pictures to show.

 

[GLOOB]

I'll take a few pics tomorrow. But it looks the same as before. I just used chromium oxide buffing compound crushed in CLP, and twisted till my arms got tired. You could still see the low spots on the fit. It didn't look visibly improved, even. Somehow it's just good enough to work, though. Must a dropped 100 charges looking for a leak, and didn't see a single flake (of H335!) fall from anywhere but the drop tube.

I'm curious if there'll be any powder in the body when I open it up, later. But I don't wanna jinx it, right now.

 

[Rory McCanuck]

I noticed with mine that it had a depression in the cone in one spot,
and that would allow H-335 to bunch up and grind against the polymer
wiper. It would grind away and then leak out. Now the wiper looks like
a serrated knife blade
Now I just use a dipper for H-335.
Amazingly accurate with stick powders, though.

 

[GLOOB]

I still have visible low spots. I must have removed some invisible high spots and out-of-roundness, cuz now I can tighten the screw much tighter. Before, the lever would seize if you tightened it too much. You had to loosen it just enough where you could see the joint wobble just a tiny bit as it moved through the arc. Now, you can tighten it up as much as you want, and the joint stays true. I bet I would destroy the threads before I would get the joint to seize. I have it so tight the lever feels stuck until you start the throw. But once in motion, it moves smoothly and easily to the end. And without grains getting in there to add the crunchiness, it's overall much more pleasant to operate.

I dunno if yours is beyond help at this point. It certainly is slow work trying to hand-fit these plastic parts. But if you see any wobble/play as you turn the arm, it might be worth a try? The good thing about the conical/45 degree angle joint is that you can grind/mate the surfaces as much as you want without increasing the tolerance/play. The screw takes it up. Theoretically, you could grind/mate out the scratches and the low spot if you had enough time on your hands - and if you have enough wiper left. As you grind it, the wiper gets sharpened!

That said, there's nothing wrong with a dipper. But the irony is that my only powder that didn't leak terribly through this thing was Unique. And for that, I PREFER dippers. My theory is that with a dipper, you're leaving all the broken flakes at the bottom of the bowl. And each time you dip, you're fluffing the powder, so it doesn't matter how settled/compacted your bowl of powder is. The powders I want to try in my PPM are HP38, H110, and H335.

 

[mdi]

I did about the same thing with my PPM about 20 years ago. I had some regular valve lapping coumpound and lapped the cone into the body. My measure worked much better with fewer leaks except for WC820. Still dribbles WC820 out around the cone/body mating surface. No big deal though, I have an old Hornady measure that uses a "slide and bushing" system that leake nothing...

 

[Mike 27]

Mine leaked a bit for a while. Finally I was loading some AA2230 the other day and it after a few years must have reached the "break in point" I believe that Lee says it may need and didn't leak at all. I love my Lee stuff, so don't get me wrong I am not trying to bash but it took a while. It has always been consistent, but with the fine powder has always leaked a little.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Just think all that time you could have used in reloading/shooting if you would have bought a Hornady/RCBS/Redding powder measure.

 

[GLOOB]

^ Well, yes. I agree, I probably would have gone with something else that didn't take a lot of troubleshooting, had I known. But I got this as part of a kit, and I still don't know what other measure out there is actually better. I was getting ready to order a Pro Auto Disk, but decided to mess with this for awhile, first. I hate throwing things away, and I'm too lazy to freecycle or sell them.

But knowing what I do, now... in hindsight I could'a got it working in tiptop shape in right around 30-45 minutes, including the cleaning and testing. Since many people consider the PPM more accurate than the other "colors" (and less cutting/binding on stick powders and large flake - something about the plastic wiper not breaking the grains as often?), I guess you have to ask yourself is saving a bit of scratch and having as good (or maybe better??) a measure worth your time if you're in the market, and now that YOU know?

Guess that's why I shared? There are a lot of these things out there, and I'm sure they could be put to better use than to go in a landfill after shelling out for an upgrade.

 

[matrem]

Did 30 throws with a FULL hopper of H335. And this time, not a single flake leaked out!

Guess I always referred to that as "ball" powder.

Always thought of the handgun / shotgun powders as "flakes"

Anyway, my Lee "Perfect" has always leaked like a sieve with ball powder, and if it bothered me, I'd use my Lyman # 55.

 

[kingmt]

I don't have any problems with the Pro Auto Disk. My LNL on the other hand needs work. I don't have a PPM but this is still an interesting thread.

I assume this is the part you are talking about:

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, that's it. Sorry I didn't post the pics, like I promised. I was busy loading ammo with it! That part, and the mating socket, are both cast from plastic. It's hard to see, but there can be lots of little depressions and high spots. It looks like the plastic warps a little once out of the mold.

Loaded up a box of 22-250 with H335. Cuz of the stupid way I mounted it, I had to do a doublethrow of 16 grains x 2. Then I discovered you have to get that little .22 caliber neck centered just right on the drop tube, or you create a new leak. Grrr.

While setting it up, I was measuring from [edit, fix] 31.9 to 32.2 grains. After it settled in, it seemed to consistently drop right around [edit, fix] 32.1-32.2. All the spot checks i did came out between 32.1-32.2. Still no leaks, and no crunch in the throw. I'm pretty happy with the consistency.

Even though I still prefer dippers, the PPM was probably a LITTLE easier than hand trickling and weighing each charge, like I did for my first 20 test rounds in this caliber. Problem is you still have to set it up and calibrate it. So for small workup batches, it really doesn't save me much time. But I suppose it will also come in handy if I want to drop a powder from the lineup. It's kinda hard to use up a powder with a dipper, esp with some of my rifle dippers, which are way tall! (I try to go tall/thin with my dippers. I think it makes 'em more accurate!)

Next project is a custom drop tube.

 

[mokin]

Cool! My PPM has leaked but only to the point of minor annoyance. The crunchy sention while turning the lever is more annoying. I'll try your fix.

 

[ChefJeff1]

nice, you inspire me to fix mine. It works fine for me but when using H110 I almost need to do it outside because it makes such a mess.

 

[GLOOB]

Custom drop tube

My custom drop tube is done. I put my little leak hopper back on for the pic, just to show it.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/gloob27x/PPM001.jpg

So to make it, I ran a .223 case through my sizing die with the decapping/expanding pin removed. Then stuffed it through my FCD die to further narrow the mouth. Then gave it an outside chamfer/bevel. Cut the base off the case and polished the inside of the entire case. Then gave the head end a deep inside bevel. Then enlarged the inside of the plastic drop tube with a Dremel to fit the case in by friction.

In retrospect, a 22-250 case might'a been even better. You could probably fit it OVER the end of the plastic drop tube after cutting off the flared end.

A prepped 22 caliber case mouth is easily centered and held over the end with just a little upwards pressure. It acts somewhat like a ball joint, so the target case doesn't have to be perfectly straight up/down. You can rotate the target case up to a 10-15 degree angle and it's still sealed. You don't have to futz in the dark and rely on feel. And for pistol cases, you can watch the powder pour in. Kinda kewl. Even Unique flows through like water. I like it!

I haven't tried Varget, yet. But if my previous experience with it is any indication, stick powders like Varget are most likely to get stuck through a narrow stricture.

 

[jack44]

I just finished reloading 100 45/70 IMR 3031 rounds using the perfect powder messure no problems.

 

[GLOOB]

Yeah, the regular powder drop tube works great for 30+ caliber cases. 22 caliber cases are a bit fiddly to do, IMO, without losing a few flakes here and there. Maybe I'm too picky. I junked a .223-specific Saturn funnel for the same reason. I replaced it with a DIY funnel based on the same concept of just barely fitting INside the case mouth.

 

[Ranger J]

I pretty well gave up using fine powders such as H110 and such because of the leaks. It works fine with 2400 and most other larger grain powders. This is OK as I am usually not trying to squeeze the last FPS from my loads.

RJ

 

[GLOOB]

Doesn't have to be that way, though. Fine ball powders meter the BEST in a thrower!

Here's the real test. I did 125 .223 rounds, yesterday, using H335. (H335 and H110 are practically identical in grain size.) This was after carefully cleaning my bench of stray powder. Pouring the powder into the hopper, throwing 125 charges, weighing a few spot checks, and pouring the powder back into the jar.... bench still spotless. I didn't lose a flake, and didn't encounter any resistance or crunch in the lever. I also have to admit, it was both faster and more accurate than using a dipper + funnel, and my new drop tube was great. Charges all within ~ 0.1 grain spread on a 23 grain load? Yeah, that works for me. I'm definitely sold on the PPM.

On the H110 tangent, I gotta say I'm sorely disappointed. I shot my first H110 357 loads last weekend. 22 grains under a 125gr JHP. I was expecting a fire-breathing dragon and hoping for a sore wrist. In daylight, I didn't see any muzzle flash, and outta my 6" 686, the recoil was about a half what I have experienced out of a G27 with some of my reloads. This load was downright pleasant. I'm not sure why they ever started making 357's so big and heavy. Maybe today's load books have all been lowered? Now I'm seriously considering a .454.