Picked up that unissued 1945 Remington Rand 1911. Need help with value

[drobs]

I'd shoot it.

I don't think you won the lottery there. I've been watching property marked Remington Rand 1911A1's and Colt 1911's on Gunbroker. Remington Rand's sell for less than Colts. A1's sell for less than non-A1's.

This is what Remington Rand 1911A1's are selling for on Gunbroker. Completed auctions sorted by bids, high to low.

Ignoring the nickel one, $1625 on the low end and $2502 on the high end.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I see CMP 1911’s in Gunbroker all the time. There is nothing the CMP can do to stop them from being sold. Ban you from future CMP sales? Only matters to those who plan to make more and many don’t. I have a CMP 1911. Not selling it though. Just don’t expect to get some letter from the CMP if I did.

There's like... a couple. I can probably count on one hand the number I've seen on Gunbroker this year, and never more than two or so at a time. I admit people may be selling without stating it's a CMP gun, but that's such a strong positive in a sale since the provenance is known that most people selling them will advertise that fact. Out of some 25,000 released so far, it seems that most people either never had the intention to sell or are abiding by the CMP's rule. I think the CMP's rule is not of their own doing, I believe it was a condition of the transfer of the pistols from DoD that people could only get one each and could not resell them.

But I suppose one could take the "You're not the boss of me, I do what I wanna do!" attitude that is so emblematic of everything wrong with Western culture. Personally I think it's a great thing that most aren't.

I got a mixmaster Colt frame with a 1945 Remington-Rand slide. I wouldn't sell it, but I might trade it for a reasonable service-grade Garand to round out my collection, as I have a complete 1945 Remington-Rand, and supposedly I have a complete 1942 Colt, if the shipping problems can get resolved. I missed the Garand boat, though, and I'm a little scared to pick up one of the ones they have left by mail, and I'm too far away to go to a store and hand pick.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I'd shoot it.

I don't think you won the lottery there. I've been watching property marked Remington Rand 1911A1's and Colt 1911's on Gunbroker. Remington Rand's sell for less than Colts. A1's sell for less than non-A1's.

This is what Remington Rand 1911A1's are selling for on Gunbroker. Completed auctions sorted by bids, high to low.

Ignoring the nickel one, $1625 on the low end and $2502 on the high end.

View attachment 1138443

R-Rs definitely don't have the same collector cachet that the Pony guns do, or the rarity of the Ithaca, US&S, or Singer guns, but I suspect they'll be sleepers and in 10-20 years, people will miss the days you could get one for $1,700 on Gunbroker. Clawson opined that the R-R guns were arguably the best deal the government got, and R-R's dedication to quality improvement had them turning out guns as good or better than Colt for less money by the end of the war.

 

[drobs]

R-Rs definitely don't have the same collector cachet that the Pony guns do, or the rarity of the Ithaca, US&S, or Singer guns, but I suspect they'll be sleepers and in 10-20 years, people will miss the days you could get one for $1,700 on Gunbroker. Clawson opined that the R-R guns were arguably the best deal the government got, and R-R's dedication to quality improvement had them turning out guns as good or better than Colt for less money by the end of the war.

I don't disagree. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a R-R but would rather have an older Colt in that price range.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I don't disagree. I've been close to pulling the trigger on a R-R but would rather have an older Colt in that price range.

My first GI pistol was a Remington-Rand. I overpaid a bit, but I told myself I just needed one GI gun.

Now GI guns make up nearly a third of my gun cabinet's value by price and I'm asking myself how I could come up with $6,000 to get a matching US&S and another $2,000 for an Ithaca so I can have one from each non-Singer manufacturer.

 

[JDeere]

The deal with selling CMP 1911s is the same as it was suppose to be with the Garands and the rest of the rifles they sold. We all know how that turned out. They may have stated that about the 1911s to appease the Government for cya purposes but the bottom line is they will be sold.

 

[silicosys4]

Well, I did end up sending that Remington Rand into Scott Gahimer for a hands on evaluation.
I'm glad I did.
What I have according to Scott Gahimer, is a 99%+ original finish, all original parts Remington Rand that has been fired but very little, in its authentic kraft box.
It is the real deal, its as it left the factory except for a few blemishes that he stressed were so minor as to be inconsequential.
For all intents and purposes, this gun is exactly as you would have seen them being issued to the troops in World War 2.
If I had the dcm shipping box and original dcm paperwork it would be a $7k gun, but as it sits is closer to $6k.
Not bad.

I will be posting a more in depth thread with his pictures when his letter arrives.
This has been a learning experience for sure and I hope others can benefit from what I've found out while researching this time capsule

 

[Balrog]

Wow... 6K for a Remington Rand? I have generally felt they were the least collective USGI 1911s.

 

[AlexanderA]

Wow... 6K for a Remington Rand? I have generally felt they were the least collective USGI 1911s.

2nd most common, after the Colts. I have one in similar mint condition, in my collection. I don't care what an "expert" says, $6,000 is unrealistically high.

 

[silicosys4]

2nd most common, after the Colts. I have one in similar mint condition, in my collection. I don't care what an "expert" says, $6,000 is unrealistically high.

Uh...Scott Gahimer is THE expert on USGI 1911's. Here is a quote from the video; "Another Singer in Scotts collection......"


https://m1911info.com/

$6000 is what two examples just like mine sold for each from a private collection recently. From what i'm to understand, Scott brokered the deal.
If you have a similar one in mint condition in your collection, pat yourself on the back. Original finish, original parts, high condition USGI Remington Rands are like hens teeth and when authenticated, sell for high prices. There are only a few that can be authenticated as in unissued, as new condition. Add the original box in, and the package almost doubles in value. I'll post the letter. I'm sure it will explain much of this.

Consider getting yours authenticated. It could be worth multiples more than you thought it was.

 

[AlexanderA]

Consider getting yours authenticated. It could be worth multiples more than you thought it was.

I paid $135 for my mint Remington Rand, back in 1974. And all of $190 for my mint Ithaca, in 1976. (I've never fired either of them.) So I have trouble comprehending these astronomical valuations. Since I don't intend to sell, the "value" means nothing to me. My heirs might get a windfall.

Here they are. (R-R on top, Ithaca on the bottom.)

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The writing on the top coincides with what I believe to be the original price of the guns, $17.00, the shipping cost of $2.94, and the total price of $19.94.
Man a $20 bill went a long ways back then.

I have a WWI version (and receipt) that was sold to its soldier when he mustered out, pistol, mag, holster, and 100 rounds of ball ammo for $23 or 25 and change in 1925.

 

[CapnMac]

time travelers must pay cash

Just use period-correct bills, as it would be embarrassing to be arrested as a counterfeiter . . .

 

[Nature Boy]

@silicosys4

Is it your intention to sell it?

 

[silicosys4]

@silicosys4

Is it your intention to sell it?

At some point, yes.

 

[AlexanderA]

Is it your intention to sell it?

Good point. Because if not, laying out $400-500 for an appraisal is wasted money. And the sale must be reasonably imminent, because values change over time, and an old appraisal becomes stale and worthless.

 

[Nature Boy]

At some point, yes.

Well, that’s when we will know what it’s worth

 

[silicosys4]

Good point. Because if not, laying out $400-500 for an appraisal is wasted money. And the sale must be reasonably imminent, because values change over time, and an old appraisal becomes stale and worthless.

The value of the firearm is only a small part of the appraisal. An estimation of value won't even appear on the letter for the reasons you listed above.

 

[silicosys4]

Well, that’s when we will know what it’s worth

If that were true it would only be worth what I paid for it, and that's certainly not the case.

 

[Nature Boy]

You missed the point.

The value of something can only be determined when both a buyer and seller agree on a price and complete a transaction. What you paid for it in the past in irrelevant to a future transaction.

If you had no intent to sell it then the appraised value would only be important for insurance purposes and perhaps your piece of mind.

But as you say, your intentions are to sell it.

Only a completed transaction will determine what it’s truly worth, not the appraisal, your opinion or the opinions of others on the internet.

 

[shoobe01]

Re: the reselling, there is no such prohibition in any of the CMP paperwork you sign when buying. Closest is:

I further certify that I am a current member of a gun club or state association presently affiliated with the CMP (or that I am a parent or guardian of a junior shooter under the age of 18 who is a member), and that I am purchasing this rifle for my (or my junior shooter’s) personal use. I hereby consent to allow the CMP to submit the information I have supplied with my application to the FBI national instant criminal background check system (NICS) to verify that I am not prohibited from buying this rifle, and I authorize the FBI to inform the CMP of the result. I acknowledge that this sale is further subject to final approval by the CMP within its sole and absolute discretion.​

Once it is personal property, you may resell as needed. You get a better one, fall on hard times, etc. You don't have to chop up or give back grandpas' CMP guns when he dies. Making a business of it would be a violation, but you can resell your guns in the normal way, yes.

 

[silicosys4]

You missed the point.

The value of something can only be determined with both a buyer and seller agree on a price and complete a transaction. What you paid for it in the past in irrelevant to a future transaction.

If you had no intent to sell it then the appraised value would only be important for insurance purposes and perhaps your piece of mind.

But as you say, your intentions are to sell it.

Only a completed transaction will determine what it’s truly worth, not the appraisal, your opinion or the opinions of others on the internet.

See post #35

$6000 is what two examples just like mine sold for each from a private collection recently. From what i'm to understand, Scott brokered the deal.

 

[Nature Boy]

There’s no point in arguing with me, I’m not a buyer for your pistol.

However, there might be a few potential buyers when you decide to sell it and you can make your case to them. If they agree it’s worth $6k then it validates what you thought is was worth.

Until then, it’s just the wind whistling through the trees.

 

[silicosys4]

There’s no point in arguing with me, I’m not a buyer for your pistol.

However, there might be a few potential buyers when you decide to sell it and you can make your case to them. If they agree it’s worth $6k then it validates what you thought is was worth.

Until then, it’s just the wind whistling through the trees.

If you say so. This is a highly sought after collectors item. Even so, there are enough others trading on the open market regularly enough to quantify a price,

So all this philosophizing really is moot.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Re: the reselling, there is no such prohibition in any of the CMP paperwork you sign when buying. Closest is:

I further certify that I am a current member of a gun club or state association presently affiliated with the CMP (or that I am a parent or guardian of a junior shooter under the age of 18 who is a member), and that I am purchasing this rifle for my (or my junior shooter’s) personal use. I hereby consent to allow the CMP to submit the information I have supplied with my application to the FBI national instant criminal background check system (NICS) to verify that I am not prohibited from buying this rifle, and I authorize the FBI to inform the CMP of the result. I acknowledge that this sale is further subject to final approval by the CMP within its sole and absolute discretion.​

Once it is personal property, you may resell as needed. You get a better one, fall on hard times, etc. You don't have to chop up or give back grandpas' CMP guns when he dies. Making a business of it would be a violation, but you can resell your guns in the normal way, yes.

That is good to know, my information must have changed. Several years ago when this first came out, CMP had a notice on their website that resale of the 1911s was not the intention of the program, and they were going to ban people they found doing that from future CMP purchases. But Round 1 was super hot and opened and closed in a flash, and Round 3 is just sort of meandering through, to the best of my knowledge still open for applications some six months after the initial application date opened, having been extended due to the impact of Hurricane Ian and then seemingly just sort of... extended.