Picked up that unissued 1945 Remington Rand 1911. Need help with value

[CapnMac]

there is no such prohibition in any of the CMP paperwork you sign when buying

That's for rifles.
There is a specific prohibition in the agreement to join the 1911A1 lottery as to purchase (of a 1911A1) for resale.
It only applies to the 1911A1 pistols in the current inventory.

It was put into place due to demand far exceeding supply, and the potential for some high-dollar specimens being discovered in the crates. You put your name in the hat, it was meant to be fair to all concerned. Which is also part of the "why" of how two NICS checks were run as well. One was run to ensure no one in the lottery pool was Prohibited, and the one at the end, at your LGS, because 18 USC 922 required it.

 

[Jeff olson]

This thread is dead. You currently are having similar debates on at least one other board. Put it up for sale. Put a price on it. See where it goes. Period the end.

 

[AlexanderA]

The value of something can only be determined when both a buyer and seller agree on a price and complete a transaction.

There are two further factors in determining fair market value: both the buyer and seller must have knowledge of all the relevant facts, and neither must be under any compulsion to buy or sell. The latter consideration occurs in a "fire sale," in which the seller is in a situation where he has to raise money fast. The knowledge issue is important, for example, in arbitrage situations where the buyers or sellers in one market are not aware of what the same items are selling for in other markets. So, if either of those two things apply, the realized price on a sale must be disregarded in determining "value." On the other hand, having more knowledge than the other party, being able to deal in overlapping markets, and taking advantage of a seller's desperate need for money, are ways by which sharp traders can make money. In other words, the sharp trader always tries to buy below FMV, and to sell above FMV.

You can see thus dynamic, in spades, at any gun show.

 

[silicosys4]

This thread is dead. You currently are having similar debates on at least one other board. Put it up for sale. Put a price on it. See where it goes. Period the end.

sounds like you should find another thread more in line with your knowledge or interests, or both.

 

[Atavar]

You might consider vacuum packing the gun for storage.

Vacuum pack with some of those oxygen consuming packets should keep it free from rust.

 

[JDeere]

sounds like you should find another thread more in line with your knowledge or interests, or both.

Actually you have made your point. You got a nice pistol. had it certified and believe it's worth a certain amount. You got opinions here and on other forums. We get it, quit beating a dead horse with your own opinion of your pistol. It will sell for what someone is willing to pay for it. No more no less. Carry on...

 

[243winxb]

https://lsbauctions.com/3319/remington-rand-1911-a1-1911a1-45-acp-semi-automatic-pistol-box-1943-cr/

this is the first time we have seen one with an arsenal issued box.

counterfeit?

 

[AlexanderA]

https://lsbauctions.com/3319/remington-rand-1911-a1-1911a1-45-acp-semi-automatic-pistol-box-1943-cr/

That's more in line with what I would expect.

 

[Nature Boy]

I get a chuckle out of threads like this.

An OP starts a post ASKING for opinions and then argues with those that don’t validate what the OP believes.

 

[Nature Boy]

That's more in line with what I would expect.

And the OP would come close to doubling his investment. Pretty well bought in my opinion

 

[silicosys4]

Actually you have made your point. You got a nice pistol. had it certified and believe it's worth a certain amount. You got opinions here and on other forums. We get it, quit beating a dead horse with your own opinion of your pistol. It will sell for what someone is willing to pay for it. No more no less. Carry on...

If you don't wish to join the discussion, find another one more suited to your knowledge and interests

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I get a chuckle out of threads like this.

An OP starts a post ASKING for opinions and then argues with those that don’t validate what the OP believes.

To be honest that's like half the threads on a gun board, charitably.

 

[silicosys4]

I get a chuckle out of threads like this.

An OP starts a post ASKING for opinions and then argues with those that don’t validate what the OP believes.

I started this thread almost two months ago. Since that time the gun has been rigorously researched, and has been appraised by the leading expert in usgi 1911's.
The thread has evolved considerably. In that time the intent of the thread has gone from a question of the guns authenticity, to a debate about the authenticity and a discussion about the methods and telltales to authenticating these guns...

And now the gun has been professionally authenticated and appraised by arguably the world expert.
I am reporting those findings because I wish I'd found a thread like this during my research.

So in continuing to argue the merits and appraisal of this gun, without some kind of information that would counter the opinion of the expert, I really don't see what you are trying to do here.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

That's for rifles.
There is a specific prohibition in the agreement to join the 1911A1 lottery as to purchase (of a 1911A1) for resale.
It only applies to the 1911A1 pistols in the current inventory.

It was put into place due to demand far exceeding supply, and the potential for some high-dollar specimens being discovered in the crates. You put your name in the hat, it was meant to be fair to all concerned. Which is also part of the "why" of how two NICS checks were run as well. One was run to ensure no one in the lottery pool was Prohibited, and the one at the end, at your LGS, because 18 USC 922 required it.

See this is what I thought I remembered seeing, but then when I went back to the site I couldn't find that restriction. Maybe they removed it because Round 3 is very sedate in terms of demand - I think they have kept it open long after the originally planned application period and after the Hurricane Ian extension they had.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I started this thread almost two months ago. Since that time the gun has been rigorously researched, and has been appraised by the leading expert in usgi 1911's.
The thread has evolved considerably. In that time the intent of the thread has gone from a question of the guns authenticity, to a debate about the authenticity and a discussion about the methods and telltales to authenticating these guns...

And now the gun has been professionally authenticated and appraised by arguably the world expert.
I am reporting those findings because I wish I'd found a thread like this during my research.

So in continuing to argue the merits and appraisal of this gun, without some kind of information that would counter the opinion of the expert, I really don't see what you are trying to do here.

There is broad disagreement about the value of the appraisal, both in terms of usefulness unless you're intending to sell in the immediate future or needing it for insurance reasons, and in terms of its high estimate. Whether someone is the leading expert in US GI 1911s or not doesn't change the fact that no one else in this thread seems to have ever seen a Remington-Rand in any condition go for the price your appraiser believes it's worth.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if it is eventually worth that within our lifetimes. Only thing that might throw a wrench in the rising values of WW2 GI guns would be a much bigger release of the DoD stockpiles to the CMP than has happened so far, plus lifting the one-per-customer restriction. To some extent, unlike Garands and carbines, where the supply is essentially exhausted and we are left with poor-condition imports in small quantities and the secondary market; GI 1911s have the supply artificially limited because most of the supply is simply sitting in government storage.

 

[Nature Boy]

So in continuing to argue the merits and appraisal of this gun, without some kind of information that would counter the opinion of the expert, I really don't see what you are trying to do here.

What do you mean, “what am I trying to do here”? I’m providing an opinion, which is what you asked for.

The expert appraisal you received provided authentication and a grade, but didn’t document a dollar value. He may have given you a number in your discussion but he didn’t put that in writing.

It seems like it’s worth more than you paid for it. How much more will only be determined when you sell it. The only thing that will prevent it from selling will be the price you put on it.

That’s simply the laws of the marketplace. Not sure how anyone could argue with that.

 

[CoalTrain49]

My law of the firearms market place.

The old gun I purchased is worth more than I paid for it. The old gun I sold was actually worth less than I paid for it.

I think the OP got a good deal on that pistol. He was willing to share the price he paid and condition. Thanks. That just gives me more information about the real world price of USGI 1911's. He purchased at the low end of the market. When he decides to sell it he will find out what the high end of the market is.

I picked up a Colt/Rand CMP pistol in the first round. I don't have any intention of selling it but if I did it's probably worth at least $2000.

 

[silicosys4]

There is broad disagreement about the value of the appraisal, both in terms of usefulness unless you're intending to sell in the immediate future or needing it for insurance reasons, and in terms of its high estimate.

No there isnt, not among serious collectors. There are a few people here who are arguing contrary, but it's clear none have done much research or talked to many knowledgeable people.

Whether someone is the leading expert in US GI 1911s or not doesn't change the fact that no one else in this thread seems to have ever seen a Remington-Rand in any condition go for the price your appraiser believes it's worth.

As I stated, Scott sold two within the last few weeks that are comparable to mine and one that also included the dcm shipping box and paperwork. The two that are comparable to mine sold for $6k, the one with the added box and paperwork sold for $7k.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if it is eventually worth that within our lifetimes.

Its worth that today.

Only thing that might throw a wrench in the rising values of WW2 GI guns would be a much bigger release of the DoD stockpiles to the CMP than has happened so far, plus lifting the one-per-customer restriction. To some extent, unlike Garands and carbines, where the supply is essentially exhausted and we are left with poor-condition imports in small quantities and the secondary market; GI 1911s have the supply artificially limited because most of the supply is simply sitting in government storage.

This gun is not comparable to any CMP releases save for perhaps a few of their auction guns.
That said, the release of current cmp stockpiles have only served to raise values on usgi guns. Refinished but matching usgi guns didn't used to command upwards of $3k.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

No there isnt, not among serious collectors. There are a few people here who are arguing contrary, but it's clear none have done much research or talked to many knowledgeable people.



As I stated, Scott sold two within the last few weeks that are comparable to mine and one that also included the dcm shipping box and paperwork. The two that are comparable to mine sold for $6k, the one with the added box and paperwork sold for $7k.



Its worth that today.

You do you, dude! I think you have a great pistol, and I'd be proud to own it. There's only one way to find out what your gun is worth, though, which is to go out now and try selling it rather than hanging around here trying to convince everyone who isn't interested in buying it that it's worth what your appraiser thinks. If you get $6,000-$7,000 for it, more power to you! I'll be the first to congratulate you, that'd be a sweet deal (although to be honest I mostly regret selling guns later).

This gun is not comparable to any CMP releases save for perhaps a few of their auction guns.
That said, the release of current cmp stockpiles have only served to raise values on usgi guns. Refinished but matching usgi guns didn't used to command upwards of $3k.

That's not my point, my point is that the DoD is sitting on a lot of 1911s, and while none of them will have DCM boxes and most of them will be rough, some small percentage of them are going to be matching and unrefinished guns in excellent condition, so the pool of excellent-condition GI guns is getting bigger at the moment because of the CMP sales. If DoD releases most of its stored pistols to CMP for resale in the next 10-15 years, I think the results of that on GI pistol prices will be unpredictable. There's a lot of factors working crossways in high-end collectible prices at the moment. Could stoke demand for that small number of excellent and original condition matching guns. Or demand could fall off. Certainly we've seen that with Colts, although it's hard to say for sure because the eye-popping asking prices for some sales are just getting relisted with no takers.

 

[CoalTrain49]

https://lsbauctions.com/3319/remington-rand-1911-a1-1911a1-45-acp-semi-automatic-pistol-box-1943-cr/

These guys sell a lot of USGI firearms. They get sold because they don't have reserves on their listings so the market sets the price. Many of the GB listings are speculators not selling a lot of their listings.

If the OP wants to find out what the market will bare, list it on GB without a reserve. That's really the only way to find the value of a firearm in todays market.

I don't care to guess at the market value but if I were dropping a single bid it would be for $2500. If it's worth more to someone else then they should have it.

As to the continuing CMP dump of 80K pistols on the market it has to lower the price of all the pistols in private ownership before they did that. 1) Because they've introduced more high condition pistols to the market and 2) Because someone who previously wanted a USGI pistol was going to have to consider buying a gun from a collector at collector prices. That was me for about 10 years. I never did but some people made the leap from a 1K pistol to a 2K pistol because there just weren't that many out there.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

As to the continuing CMP dump of 80K pistols on the market it has to lower the price of all the pistols in private ownership before they did that. 1) Because they've introduced more high condition pistols to the market and 2) Because someone who previously wanted a USGI pistol was going to have to consider buying a gun from a collector at collector prices. That was me for about 10 years. I never did but some people made the leap from a 1K pistol to a 2K pistol because there just weren't that many out there.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I think it's a bit unpredictable. We have seen a spike in prices for matching guns on Gunbroker, both listed and sold prices, despite the CMP guns. I think that's because a lot of people are trying their luck with CMP hoping to score that minty matching Colt that's been untouched since 1945, but most people get mixmasters, and a lot of them have postwar generic replacement parts, as well. So maybe the matching guns are seeing price pressure upward from people who got in because of CMP but are now invested and have moved the needle a little closer toward willingness to pay secondary market prices for the matching gun they had hoped they would get. To be honest I ended up in that spot. I have a matching 1942 Colt and a matching 1945 Remington-Rand, and I probably wouldn't own them if I didn't have my CMP mixmaster with a 1943 Colt frame and a 1945 Rand slide. I probably overpaid a little bit for both, maybe.

 

[JDeere]

Sell the thing. Come back and tell us honestly what you got. Quit trying to justify your opinion. You believe you hit the lotto and that's OK but cut the nonsense. All you want to do is argue with others opinions after asking for them for them...

 

[silicosys4]

Sell the thing. Come back and tell us honestly what you got. Quit trying to justify your opinion. You believe you hit the lotto and that's OK but cut the nonsense. All you want to do is argue with others opinions after asking for them for them...

Feel free to stop responding then.

Or,
Maybe you want to have a discussion about usgi 1911's, high condition usgi 1911's, DCM 1911's, usgi finish originality, reference sites for collectors, or any of those subjects relating to the thread, I'd love to.

Arguing with me about value, condition, or originality absent of any evidence isn't going to move me much at this point tbh. I've done far too much research and I've run into far too many people who have been very confident in being far too wrong about far too many things regarding these guns to take much at face value.

 

[S.Crockett]

Not seeing high value on this one. Repopped components certainly detract from value.

FWIW I can hear the cash value of my all-original Colt 1911s (NOT A1s) increasing each day. Much more so than even a vetted all-original RR A1.

 

[epags]

@silicosys4 (I posted this on your earlier post...sorry.
Ignore the low pricing given by some of the posters. Oct 2020 I put on consignment a 1970's series colt 1911 which I have fired probably 200 rounds through and its condition was ~98%.
The one on consignment had been modified with an ambidexous safety and a Tussy reliability pkg. The LGS priced it at $1,999 (well above what I thought it was worth since I had less than $700 in it). It sold in 26 days at the asking price.
IMO, Yours, due to its history and the box should bring 2 to 3 times more. Just need the right buyer.
Background: The one I sold was going to be my house protection gun but I bought a Glock 45 ACP for that purpose as well as my CCW.
I have a second Colt 1911 series 70 that I shoot constantly and continually modify.