Picked up that unissued 1945 Remington Rand 1911. Need help with value

[silicosys4]

Not seeing high value on this one. Repopped components certainly detract from value..

Interesting
Which components are saying are reproduction, and how did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Electricmo]

So when does this gun go up for auction? I’m very interested in having a chance to bid on it. The only problem is auctions have a tendency to go stupid.

 

[silicosys4]

A word from the appraiser

As Safestuffer indicated, I did receive his all original boxed Remington Rand a few days ago for an inspection and report. The pistol does retain more than 99% of its original finish. All parts are original to the pistol, including the barrel, which has perfeclty matching wear patterns with the slide and receiver.That is quite a feat for a 78 year old pistol. Someone has taken really good care of the pistol over the years.



While I prefer my inspection letters not be posted online to reduce the chance of counterfeit letters being produced, I thought I'd go ahead a post some images of his pistol and box. I provided 3 General Shaver magazines in the same condition to complete his pistol and box combination.









I hope to complete the inspection report in the next few days, but wanted to go ahead and share a few images and my findings after thoroughly examining his pistol and box.

 

[Mosin77]

In my experience a value can mean a lot of different things. Appraisal value usually has a lot more to do with insurance retail replacement cost than it does real world secondhand resale value. And dealer asking prices are a lot different than dealer offering prices, which are different from private party offers, etc.

That being said, the expert in question has thrown out a value that he thinks is reasonable, and he has connections with clients who are happy to pay up for guns he’s certified. So in a sense he’s a lot like a dealer who has built up his own following in the market.

If I were the OP, I would heed the LSB auction posted, which seller in my opinion tends to get top dollar on Gunbroker or close to it, and I would definitely hit up the appraiser, sooner rather than later, to see if he could broker a deal like the $6000 and $7000 deals he feels are comparable. Even if he charges a hefty percentage for this, it seems enough above the going rate to be well worth it.

An alternative is to sit on the pistol for the long term (15 years? 30? 50?) and hope that with the expansion of collector interest, the shrinking supply over the years, etc, that gun could be worth some serious money in the future, because high condition guns always bring a premium. This approach is not without risk however, as increased CMP supply, restrictions on firearms ownership and acquisition which might make gun collecting less appealing, or other market forces might make the gun worth comparatively less (after inflation) than it is now. Most guns hold their own with inflation and maybe appreciate a little, but don’t compare with the stock market in the long term.

6k, or even 4-5k, is a lot for a RR. If it were my gun, I’d be really tempted to take the money and run, if the appraiser can connect me with a buyer at that price point.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

6k, or even 4-5k, is a lot for a RR. If it were my gun, I’d be really tempted to take the money and run, if the appraiser can connect me with a buyer at that price point.

I would, too, because frankly, if you can get $6k for this specific R-R, you could get a US&S or a nearly minty matching Colt or Ithaca or two great-condition R-Rs and still have enough left to buy another gun. I think GI guns in good condition are definitely going to consistently go up. But on the other hand... I have a real hard time letting go of guns I spent a long time trying to get, which category all of my GI 1911s fall into.

 

[AlexanderA]

I would, too, because frankly, if you can get $6k for this specific R-R, you could get a US&S or a nearly minty matching Colt or Ithaca or two great-condition R-Rs and still have enough left to buy another gun.

I could see myself paying $6,000 for a really nice condition US&S. For a Remington Rand, no.

 

[S.Crockett]

I could see myself paying $6,000 for a really nice condition US&S. For a Remington Rand, no.

Especially when a "nice condition" US&S or Colt would be justifiably worth that much. ... Remmy-Rands were always bottom-of-the-barrel Mil 1911s.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Especially when a "nice condition" US&S or Colt would be justifiably worth that much. ... Remmy-Rands were always bottom-of-the-barrel Mil 1911s.

Well... In the sense that they were the most common. Quality-wise that would be uncharitable, Remington-Rand was highly motivated and pushed iterative production quality improvements throughout the duration of their contracts, by the end of production, Charles Clawson thought they were making guns as good as Colt and at a better price for the government than Colt was doing. Remington-Rand was experimenting with fully hardened slides as early as 1943, a change Colt didn't make until several years post-war.

I believe in terms of quality Ithaca had the most problems.

 

[AlexanderA]

Especially when a "nice condition" US&S or Colt would be justifiably worth that much.

Big difference in rarity between Colt and US&S. A US&S should be worth multiples of what a Colt is worth. Colts are not especially rare.

 

[S.Crockett]

Big difference in rarity between Colt and US&S. A US&S should be worth multiples of what a Colt is worth. Colts are not especially rare.

As between the Colt 1911s of WW1 and the A1s of WW2 vintage, there's a distinct valuation difference among those who collect both.

Rare Colt 1911 from 1915, a documented Army model ... plus it came with a Colt magazine that is correct for the ser. # range of the build. Not pristine, but all original.

 

[dogtown tom]

.....Remmy-Rands were always bottom-of-the-barrel Mil 1911s.

Who told you this?

http://coolgunsite.com/index.html

Remington Rand (M1911-A1): (Return to top)
Remington Rand was awarded its first order on March 16th, 1942, for a total of 125,000 1911A1 pistols. The company had no experience building pistols at the time it was awarded the contract. Remington Rand formed a new division (Remington Rand "C" Division) to take charge of building the pistols. Remington Rand "C" Division converted a vacant plant into a modern pistol manufacturing facility. The plant was located on Dickerson street in Syracuse, N.Y and was once used for building typewriters,

Initially some manufacturing equipment was not available. This caused Remington Rand to acquire parts from other sources to complete the early pistols. They purchased barrels from High Standard, Colt, and Springfield Armory; Disconnectors from US&S; Grips safeties from Colt; and Slide stops from Colt and Springfield Armory (2,865 left over from WWI). Remington Rand "C" Division inherited much of the documentation, tooling, and machinery that originally was used by The Singer Manufacturing Co. in their Educational Order. Consequently some of the parts of the early pistols were made using Singer supplied tooling and fixtures. Careful examination of Early Remington Rand pistols will reveal striking similarities in some of the parts to Singer made parts such as the triggers and mainspring housings. The first 255 production pistols where accepted by ordinance inspectors in November of 1942.

Initial shipments appeared to perform satisfactorily, but subsequent tests performed by Ordnance Inspectors revealed serious problems with parts interchangeability. In March 1943 James Rand Jr., stopped production due to a high rate of Parts Interchangeability Test failures. Only after a change in management and a thorough review of the inspection and manufacturing operations was production finally resumed in May of 1943. Throughout production Remington Rand aggressively attempted to innovate and improve the production of 1911A1 pistols.

By March of 1945 they where building the lowest price pistol in the war effort and quality was considered second to none. By the end of the war Remington Rand had produced over 875,000 pistols, almost as many as Colt (628,808) and Ithaca (335,467) combined. Reference Charles Clawsons “Colt .45 Service pistols”.

 

[vanfunk]

Who told you this?

http://coolgunsite.com/index.html

i would not agree either. Remington-Rands were some of the best-built 1911A1 pistols. Their value has often been lower than that of other, rarer manufacturers but that has nothing to do with quality.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Big difference in rarity between Colt and US&S. A US&S should be worth multiples of what a Colt is worth. Colts are not especially rare.

Most aren't, mine isn't. But maybe for the right commercial transfer GI Colt or another weird and rare variation.

 

[silicosys4]

An update to put this one to bed, and to add to the internet archives,
My gun sold the other day at auction for $5,505.

Remington Rand 1911a1 U.S. Army .45 Auto...Late Production/As New In Original Box...Mfd 1945, C&R Ok...No Reserve .45 Acp

REMINGTON RAND ~ 1911A1 U.S. ARMY .45 AUTOLATE PRODUCTION/AS NEW IN ORIGINAL BOX!MFD 1945, C&R OK...NO RESERVE! NO RESERVE! Here's a great pistol! This is a l

www.gunauction.com

 

[JDeere]

Ok that was a Jack the Dog auction. Somebody wanted it and it was all verified by Scott. You can do the same with yours and get an opinion if you choose to invest in what Scott has to say. Jack don't sell your run of the mill firearms...

 

[Nature Boy]

An update to put this one to bed, and to add to the internet archives,
This gun sold the other day at auction for $5,505.

Remington Rand 1911a1 U.S. Army .45 Auto...Late Production/As New In Original Box...Mfd 1945, C&R Ok...No Reserve .45 Acp

REMINGTON RAND ~ 1911A1 U.S. ARMY .45 AUTOLATE PRODUCTION/AS NEW IN ORIGINAL BOX!MFD 1945, C&R OK...NO RESERVE! NO RESERVE! Here's a great pistol! This is a l

www.gunauction.com

That’s nice. When are you selling yours?

 

[silicosys4]

Ok that was a Jack the Dog auction. Somebody wanted it and it was all verified by Scott. You can do the same with yours and get an opinion if you choose to invest in what Scott has to say. Jack don't sell your run of the mill firearms...

That was my gun. Sorry, I edited my post to be more clear.
To answer my own OP, a Remington Rand in 99%+ condition with its original box at the time of this posting,
will sell for $5k-$6k if you put it in front of the right people with solid authentication.

 

[silicosys4]

Duplicate

 

[Madcap_Magician]

That was my gun. Sorry, I edited my post to be more clear.
To answer my own OP, a Remington Rand in 99%+ condition with its original box at the time of this posting,
will sell for $5k-$6k if you put it in front of the right people with solid authentication.

Congratulations!

It was a very nice wartime gun. I'm quite attached to the two I have and I'm jonesing for a second crack at the CMP ones.

 

[silicosys4]

Congratulations!

It was a very nice wartime gun. I'm quite attached to the two I have and I'm jonesing for a second crack at the CMP ones.

As am I, I'm rather sad to say that at this point in my life I was unable to afford to keep that much cash tied up in a gun that really belongs in the hands of a serious collector who appreciates and can maintain its condition. Or at least I hope that's what the new owner decides to do. Its their gun now.
I'm throwing my hat in the ring for CMP's round 4. I loved that RR for what it was, a window into history, but I was always disappointed that it didn't have any history of being issued and used in service, and that I couldn't shoot it at least occasionally without ruining a lot of what it was.

 

[9mmepiphany]

An update to put this one to bed, and to add to the internet archives,

Thanks for the update and I am putting this one to bed