Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Dan-O, Mar 18, 2008.
Is that available yet?
In all honesty, I'm not super hyped about it. I own an MK9 and a P-3AT in Hard Chrome. At twice the price of the Kel-tec, I get a slide stop/release. Not really enough to justify it, IMHO. For what I need the gun for, tactical mag changes really aren't on my radar. But for those who must spend more on a gun, I think it will have a market.
The ONLY thing that would make me change my mind (and the graphics don’t seem to suggest this) is if the gun pointed a bit further up when grasped. I find, in my hand, the P-3AT points a hair low and I have to slightly adjust up. If the Kahr pointed more naturally, like my MK9… well… I might get me hyped.
But man do I love my P-3AT!
If you think all you are getting differnet is a slide stop, then indeed I would never own a P380 Kahr either, evidently you don't give any points for quality either.
Stainless slide, striker fired, slide stop, two magazines, kahr trigger system (which puts kt's trigger system to shame), Polygonal rifled barrel plus top quality barrel. dovetailed front and rear sits (nite sites to follow) A real modern looking extractor and a better extractor.. Fit and finish superior to kt's or Ruger lcp. sure is a price difference, , no doubt, you only get what you pay for.:banghead: Oh yes and kahr quality.
thanks dan o, first time seen both pictured togehter. That kahr is really a little bugger now isn't it. I though the kt's were small, wow , can't wait.
Dan O, you should post that photo on the kt site under the kahr section. That is a good photo and comparison.
those are so tiny... they look like ankle guns!!! I guess some people like those, my hand would disagree with me so much that it would be liable to turn the gun on me and shoot myself with it. Sorry that was harsh, but it just my honest opinion I couldn't hold one of those my hand would not fit the firearm. I doubt there is much wrong with those firearms and can assure anyone that it would be a perfect CQC SD handgun and I do mean close quaters combat like grapple close. I would trust shooting that full room distance (Personally I don't think I could hit the target)
Just to clarify what I am saying is totally subjective to my shooting style and comfortability. I am not saying that the weapon systems are garbage, more my shooting style is garbage for those weapons, if you get what I mean. I hope I don't tick anyone off with wha tI have just posted, please forgive me???
your right to assume that. They are small and just can't be the ergonomics of a 1911 or Big Ruger or sigs, but they are built for a purpose. POCKET CARRY. I never shot my kt's really that bad at 15 feet and under. BG would have been in trouble at that distance, and 7 shots ouf of a 380 was certainly better than a rock. and the 380 corbon dpx round is an awesome defense round for this caliber. This kahr is just to me anyhow eaking in quality and if it is anything like my flawless 9800 perfect rounds PM9, I will own one FOR SURE..
Looks SHORTER then the P3AT, and about the exact same thickness except for the slide stop lever.
As for people asking why a slide stop on a pocket gun...I want one because its how I've trained to reload ALL of my other semi autos, and consistent manual of arms is a good thing in my book.
I cant wait for the range reports.
Kahrs slide stop is actually part of their take down pin , so it is only natural that they include that in their guns. Would just seem very foolish to eliminate it. That is one of the ncie things about the slide sop on the kahrs, very similar to 1911's, just one lever on the left side of the kahrs. And if you don't like that pin protruding out the right side as much as it does on the kahrs, you can do what I did, I just took a dremel and shortened it to the lenght of the right side frame. Still pushes out ok and actually looks like a frame pin. And the photo of the kahr P380 also shows the old style slide lock lever to. the new levers are tapered on the end, which dresses it up and also cleans it up alittle more. I again when I modified my slide stop pin, I took my dremel and contoured the entire sides of the slide stop. It is about 1/3rd smaller and looks super, no sharp edges to grab on to anything. This was done to my PM9, not to my P380 of which I don't have but willdo the same thing to when it gets here SOMEDAY..
Rather an internal hammer, myself
In a pocket gun, not a big deal
What's a magazine cost? Is it worth an extra 300 bucks?
Yeah, for target shooting. I'd rather have my P11's trigger for safe, but ready pocket carry condition one. DA is the way. If yu find the KT has a poor trigger, you need practice.
Does that really matter in a pocket defense gun? The KT is plenty accurate. You won't find one on the line of an Olympic centerfire match, of course, that also applies to the Kahr.
Again, you want a target gun or pocket defense gun. Machined in sights don't knock off.
If the gun works (P3ATs do), so what, who cares what the friggin' extractor looks like?
It by God better be for the price!
I've seen just as much Kahr bashing around here as KT, well, almost as much. I've seen more than that for Ruger. You want a high quality manufacturer, proven, buy a Ruger.
heh, keep the kt, good gun , I had my fill of them and will go with the Ruger and karhs. Pay more, get more, to some that means something, some choose the other route and thats fine with me. All the things on the kahrs that you don't like are ur opinions. I won't try to releate to each one either. those features are on the kahrs and their price dictates it to, Probalby to costly for some and that is understandable to. Kahrs basically are not low priced guns in the first place. Not sure kahr even thought about competing in the kt price range either. So all kt has to worry about is really Ruger's lcp..
Agree with MCGunner and will add:
I own an MK9, I don't believe it's THAT MUCH BETTER than a kel-tec and it’s all steel. Both go bang. Both have smooth DAO trigger pulls. I don't agree that Kahr's Trigger puts the p-3at's to shame. If you were talking about the p-11, then I would agree. But the 3at and the PF-9 are very nice. Not as nice as the Kahr’s but not shamed.
SS Slide? I put my Hard Chrome p-3at though every bit as much hell as I put my SS MK9. Both are fine.
Fit and finish is not worth $300 more. The replacement barrel I got form Kahr (long story, not the guns fault) looks terrible. I’ve looked at the Ploy Kahrs and am not impressed that they are finished to the tune of 2x the price better than a Kel-tec.
Throw in Kel-tec’s Customer service and lifetime warranty <insert fanboy crack about “you’ll need it with that POS” here> vs. Kahr’s 1 year warranty and it’s… interesting customer service (I can’t say it’s bad, but it’s not great) and I’ll take a Kel-tec over a Kahr any day unless I can get a stellar deal on an all steel Kahr.
I will not say the Kahr is a bad gun. It’s not. It just doesn’t strike me as being worth what they want for their poly’s. If it is to you, that’s great. That’s why they make ‘em.
I think the LCP settled this argument.
un less kahr changed their warranty yesterday it is still 5 years. but doesn't compare to kt's lifetime warranty--course one needs it when owning a kt to. Great guns, they just don't last!!
That is so totally my Wife's next gun (and my weekend party's gun)... she just doesn't know it yet
$$$$ I have the PM9, but that price for a .380 without a Pony on the side for a safe queen is up there according to the website,
So you are saying you don't want one, is that right McGunner?
I think it is an interesting gun. But if I'm not going to at least carry a PM9, I figure why bother.
I may end up with one anyways though.
can't argue that point at all....That is a good reason to not carry any 380-period...
Keltecs are good enough for most people...OK.....?? Duh! Why do you guys always want something better??! Anybody that spends over $250 for a self defense firearm is wasting their money!!
I'm kidding, of course!! I don't currently own a polymer firearm, but the Kahr P380 looks very interesting. I'm on my 2nd MK9..love it (shouldn't have sold the first!), but I've not been convinced of the polymer quality, until the VD series PM9's. (Now the IA? series)
The PM9 is too large to really be an all-the-time pocket pistol, which my Seecamp 32 is. The .32 ACP doesn't make me feel confident. Bought a Keltec PF9 but it is too large for a pocket pistol, and felt cheaper than my Crosman .177 Airgun. I IWB my MK9, but the Seecamp is so much easier to toss in my pocket.
I want a quality pocket pistol. The Keltec will not do it for me. Ruger is not Ruger anymore (new management) and the SR9 is off to a shaky start.
I think Kahr finally has the PM9 right..I will wait until the P380 proves itself before I jump, but I expect them to have a street cost of $500-$525 which I think is cheap for a first quality pistol, with all the pro quality stuff.
Those pictures are taken to make the keltec look bigger. Put the keltec in the back and see how it looks. Also, in the picture with the top view, the keltec is angled to make it look wider. Not quite a fair comparison, but who took the pictures???
I'm carrying a PM9, and would consider the .380 as a BUG. I've owned 4 KelTecs and there's no comparison with Kahr, IMO. I think Kahr is worth the money. Nevertheless, I'll wait at least a year of so and read the posts about any new model gun before buying one.
Having tried the trigger on a Kahr, and owning a P3AT, I can say that the P3AT trigger is unequivocally better than the Kahr.
As far as sights, I don't need them on a pocket pistol. This is a group I shot with my P3AT at 7 yards:
Plenty accurate, and no big sights to snag on anything during the draw (even more important in a pocket gun).
Slide stop, again, not necessary in a pocket gun, and more likely to get accidentally engaged on such a tiny gun that I'd rather not have one.
Reliability - I've heard enough about problems from both brands that I'm not likely to spend that much on a Kahr, but for a Kel-Tec (with a lifetime warranty) it's acceptable.
Durability - yes, I'm aware that the Kel-Tec has a limited lifetime. It can only fire so many thousand rounds before the frame is beat all to pieces, and needs to be replaced. That's what the lifetime warranty is for. If the Kahr is more durable... why do they only have a 5 year warranty?
Kel-Tec P3at / Kel-Tec P32 and my Kahr PM9
I purchased a P3at for pocket carry and the P32 for my wife. I ran across the Kahr PM9 while shopping for the pocket pistols and just had to have it. I took all three to the range today and here is the results. The Kahr PM9 is one great gun, fit and finish is as good as it gets without going custom. Shooting it was a pleasure, surprising to me that the accuracy was so good. I highly reccommend this gun. I had a total of three malfunctions at under 50 rounds, one malfunction at over 50 rounds and after 100 rounds no malfunctions. I shot the recommended 200 rounds.
The P3at trigger transfer bar or hammer tang apparently broke after nine rounds. The gun is down for the count and must be sent back to Kel Tec. All I know is that the trigger will go all the way back but does not move the hammer. I am sure they will fix the problem and it will be a great little gun. The Kel Tec P32 shot like a champ and the accuracy was right on. I love the slide stop action on the P32, wonder why the P3at does not have this feature? The p32 had a couple of malfunctions below 50 rounds but after that it ate the rounds as fast as you could pull the trigger. The guide pin in the 32 is plastic and I find that a little crude, why not put a real metal guide pin in the thing?
I don't do reviews for a living as you can tell but I hope you find this intersting. I don't think the new Kahr 380 would break down as did the P3at, I am thinking hard about purchasing the Kahr P380
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