pietta 1860 binding

[oxide80]

Im sure this is a simple adjustment but figured I would ask the experienced black powder shooters before i tore into the gun. It has seen about 60 to 70 shots, I have noticed when cycling the gun with caps on the nipples it will bind, unable to pull the hammer more than 1/4 of the way back and the cylinder will not rotate. If you bed the hammer and give it gentle push into the nipple it will make a final click and then you can cycle the gun to the next round. It does not do this with out caps on the nipples. This is something the gun has slowly developing. Any insite to what I need to look at?

 

[Jaymo]

Your caps may not be seating completely on the nipples. What caps are you using? I have problems with CCI #10 caps not seating fully until pushed hard onto the cone.

 

[oxide80]

Im shooting remington #11. I have some old #10's someplace. Just seemed odd that its been progressively becoming more frequent.

 

[Jaymo]

Remington #10s work best on all my Italian BP guns.
I'd try thoroughly cleaning the gun, and then lube it.,

 

[scrat]

what your describing could be anything. Most common resolve. Strip the gun completely make sure you scrub off all the bp residue. then lube it lightly and put it back together. needs to be a complete strip though. After that you should be fine.

Most likely you have a piece of a cap frag in the works.

 

[Varmiter]

I don’t think it’s the cap or nipples. They certainly come into the equasion on not only the cycling properly, but also the ease of cycling.

The forward index for the cylinder end shake, which is a critical adjustment, is the forcing cone itself. My guess.....remove the cylinder, scrape all the crud off the face and scrape the crud off the face of the forcing cone..

Try this before you clean the gun and see if you have the right answer. Then clean the gun well and relube. At least you will know what the problem is and know what to do, even at the range.

I keep old cut up credit cards in my ‘possibles’ bag just for this. they make great scrapers that won't hurt the finish of the gun. It’s a known problem with this model.

AND.....No, your gun is NOT developing a problem.

My ‘brace’ of 1860's along with an ROA. The top 1860 has been fired thousands of times. Still works perfectly. The bottom 1860 arrived a short time ago from the Cabelas sale.



The next two show the close relationship between the cylinder face and the forcing cone.





Chris

 

[Dellbert]

I'm sitting here looking at both of my Pietta 60s and holding them up to the light I can't see vlight coming through the cylinder face and the forcing cone. unless you can tell if it's ribbing than I'd check under the nipples and make sure it's all clean under there. After that I'd give those Remington #10 caps another try.

 

[Varmiter]

You really have to think about what is usually happening at different stages of the working of the gun.

First.
With the hammer down on an empty nipple, you need to hold the hammer down HARD and then move the cylinder thru it’s entire travel of endshake. You should NOT feel the nipple hit the hammer. You should make this check for each chamber/nipple. If the hammer does contact a nipple, further investigation is needed.

Second.
Both of my 1860's measure . 007in between the forcing cone and cylinder face, and both surfaces ARE CLEAN. That is slightly less than the thickness of printer paper. So, you won’t see any light if either, or both surfaces are dirty.

The endshake measurement on a C&B cylinder is critical, and very tight. The reason is, if there is too much forward travel, the hammer falling may not even touch the cap. Also, with the buildup of crud on both the cylinder face and the forcing cone face, the rotation cycle may become difficult.

During normal operation, residue from the cap, as well as residue from the cylinder escape from under the cap and works its way down into the critical dims of the cylinder endshake. On the front, both the cylinder and forcing cone accumulate residue, which continues to build, until either one, the other, or both cause problems.

BP is dirty. Until one accepts and understand that, problems are difficult to understand. However, once understood, for me anyway, this is the most fun shooting.

The wonderful world of soot and smoke.

Chris

 

[Foto Joe]

If you're able to push the hammer down onto the nipples and hear an audible "Click", that's telling "me" that the caps aren't seated.

With a clean gun you can get away with a few indescretions, but once she gets some crud on her things have to be working the way St. Sam intended or you basically have a non-lethal weapon in your hand.

If you bed the hammer and give it gentle push into the nipple it will make a final click and then you can cycle the gun to the next round. It does not do this with out caps on the nipples.

My take on this is as follows: The caps "might" not be getting seated properly. This will cause them to drag on the recoil shield. If the recoil shield is spotlessly clean you might get away with this, if not the drag will be just that, a drag. More likely is you are trying to stuff too much nipple into too little cap. Try a larger cap, i.e. #11 in either CCI or Remington

I have an 1860 Sheriff Model by Pietta which for some unknown reason likes CCI #10's, I only have one other gun that uses the things. In fact I had the gun out today, loaded it and then capped it with CCI #11's. After it was capped I stuffed it in my pocket (remember, stubby barrel Sheriff) and helped my buddy get his pistol loaded. When I pulled it out of my pocket I noticed that a couple of the caps were missing, so THAT'S what happened to the other gun I own that takes CCI #10's, it's in my pocket!!

Anyway, try a larger cap. Also, and this sounds dumb but....make sure that the nipples are actually screwed ALL the way into the cylinder. Don't lean on them, they just need to be snug, but if one or two is backing out it would cause the caps to drag on the recoil shield.

Let us know what you figure out so that which ever of us made the closest diagnosis can gloat.

 

[BHP FAN]

I'm thinking your wedge is in too far. back it off, and reset the screw that controls how deep it can go.

 

[freedom475]

The wedge screw does absolutely nothing but keep the wedge from falling all the way out when you remove the barrel...it serves NO other purpose.

If you here a audible "Click" when the hammer is seated fully, then what you are discribing is not binding, but a full "lock-up" due to the hammer not traveling its' complete cycle.

Most likely you need to seat your caps further...I just cycle the action and press the back of the hammer firmly onto each cap after I have them on...yeah I know it needs to be done safely, but it is unlikely that you can press hard enough with your palm on the back of the hammer to set off a cap. They are impact sensitive, but it still pays to do this in a completly safe direction with your off hand out of the way of the cylinder gap.

The other thing that can happen is a spent cap will get smashed under the hammer against the frame...this will prevent the hammer from making a the full cycle and this will result in a lock-up too.

Your nipples may not be getting screwed down all the way tight or there is crud under them preventing them from seating all the way.

 

[AJumbo]

Make sure the nipples are screwed all the way into the cylinder. Really. Happened to me, and the symptoms were exactly as described in the original post.

 

[Fingers McGee]

If you've put 60 to 70 rounds through it, it probably just needs a good cleaning. Fouling at the front of the cylinder will narrow the barrel/cylinder gap, and fouling around the nipples will keep the caps from seating all the way - depending on what size/brand you are using. In combination, these conditions will cause the hammer to fail to go forward enough for the bolt legs to over ride the hammer cam. A buildup of fouling in the hammer channel can also prevent the hammer spring from pushing the hammer forward enough.

 

[mitchz]

I have a Walker that is close to the same design. It sounds to me that Carbon fouling is not letting the cyl. turn all the way. I'm sure you have seen that these are living weapons which means that every shot you take changes it and you must make adjustments. What I have found is that the front of the cyl. will build up and the pin the cyl. turns on will also get built up. The front is easy you can wipe it each time you reload and also tap your wedge out as you fire. As for the pin it spins on all you can do is strip and clean. I use allot of bore butter on that pin and it works excellent in the cold but not so good in summer.

 

[Foto Joe]

I would be a little careful about "tapping" that wedge out while I'm shooting if I were you. Especially with a Walker, you could find yourself taking a walk to find the barrel downrange somewhere. That and you run the very real risk of peening the barrel opening and deforming it.

Ballistol and water mixed 1:1 or whatever mixture you prefer, wipe the front of the cylinder off between loads and that should take care of the problem. Straight Ballistol to lube the arbor using a small oiler.

Also, you might want to consider polishing the front of the cylinder. A lot of times there are minute machine marks on them that act like a fouling sponge. Just don't get too carried away with the polishing or you'll increase your cylinder to forcing cone gap beyond what you want it to be.