Pistol Caliber Carbine Dilemma

[C0untZer0]

CZ-UB Scorpion EVO3 S1 16" barreled version may be coming to the US.

http://www.czub.cz/cz/catalog/327-zbrane-pro-sport-a-hobby/KSPK/CZ_SCORPION_EVO_3_S1.aspx

And there is always the Taurus

http://www.taurususa.com/rifles.cfm

I was told that the wings on the Beretta can't be removed so if you mount optics on the picatiny rail - they have to be elevated above the iron sights.

If the Tavor is an accurate 9mm carbine I'd get it.

There is also a chance that the pistol version of the HK might be imported again as the HK SP5K.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.mechtechsys.com/ uses glock,1911 lowers,
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...6-dedicated-9mm-lower-receiver-prod40377.aspx cmmg lower
http://bazookabrothers.com/pages/home/1 45 acp ar15

 

[JamieC]

Another vote for the Kel Tec Sub 2K, folds, fit into back pack, lap top bag, tuck under the seat of a car. Great fun to shoot, put some +P+ Ranger Ts in there, some 'slightly warm' reloads, great SD weapon especially if you already have a hand gun that shares the same magazines.

 

[tiamat]

No mention of a Kel-Tec Sub2000. Fun gun that folds small enough to fit in a laptop bag.

This would get my vote.

 

[aarondhgraham]

And no one has mentioned,,,

Hi-Point

.

 

[Domino]

I went for the TNW ASR in 9X19 with a .45 ACP conversion kit. I've had it a little over a year and its a great little carbine.



- All aluminum/steel construction (except for the furniture)
- fast breakdown for storage
- Accepts Glock 9/40/45 cal mags
- easily convertible to 9/40/45
- AR pistol grip and stock

I used to have the S2k and I really liked it but for the money, the ASR is higher quality and much more versatile. Some more next to my old S2k for a size comparison...





I just got my tax stamp back to SBR it, should get it back from the gunsmith next week or so. The cool thing is that the upper is the actual receiver so I can switch calibers (different lowers for different magwells) without needing a new stamp. So when the 22 cal conversion comes out I will have one SBR that can be 3 different calibers with a quick swap of parts.

 

[B!ngo]

Ok I am now thinking...

1. Tavor at the high end price wise, but I am a lefty so would have to send it in to get the switch but I could get the 9mm conversion when it comes out.

2. Mini Vector Uzi. Already have full size uzi and find it just a bit big so the mini makes sense plus I already have the 9mm and magazines, just need to get the burris top cover and side charging handle.

3. FN PS90. It is completely ambi, as I am a lefty that is very important to me. The magazines are 50rds inside. The caliber debate is settled in my head so no need to start that conversation.

I'm left handed and went through the same deliberation. I considered a PS90 for a while but was put off by the design/cost of the proprietary ammo. Too bad FN doesn't sell it in other calibers. I'm glad I kept looking.
I ultimately found a new MKE AT94 (perfect H&K clone). The design and roller-lock performance is outstanding. I'm just about to get it back from Bill Springfield who is installing (among other things) an ambi fire control system. Though it's not perfectly suited to lefties, it's close enough and is outstanding. But I see where the MKE's are going for $2K now (they are built on H&K machinery in H&K MP5 factories in Turkey) so it's a pretty big number to swallow.
I guess if not the clone, I'd hold our for the new Sig PCC's. They look to be excellent.
B

 

[ssyoumans]

How about a M1 Carbine in 9mm. Legacy Sports is releasing it soon, uses Beretta mags.

 

[barnbwt]

That M1's a straight blowback, fwiw. Won't feel as 'handy' or soft shooting as a locked breech M1

TCB

 

[eldon519]

I'm curious to see how the blowback action works with an open receiver design on the M1 Carbine. Seems like you'd take lots of crap to the face with every shot. Anyone have any experience with one?

 

[Mad Machinist]

DI AR45 with an HK USC Magwell adaptor.....Magwell adaptor inserts like a magazine.....in any standard AR15 lower....and uses HK USC magazines available from Promag in 10 15 and 20 round capacities, and have last round bolt hold open capability.......Upper is gas operated just like a 5.56.

 

[PBR Streetgang]

I have a Ruger PC4 that I bought to carry in my cruiser.It's a nice PCC but ended up a safe queen after I retired.

Also have a Rossi 92 in .357 mag that I've slicked up a bit. This is my fun gun now........

 

[.375]

turn your uzi into an SBR.

you already have the best option

 

[kilibreaux]

Pretty much EVERYTHING is nice...but not necessarily cost competitive.

You can build your own AR-15 PISTOL in .300 Blackout for around $600...probably less if you shop around.

The .300 AAC was DESIGNED from day one to be highly efficient in SHORT barrels...my 8.5" CMMG will deliver 2250 fps with a 125 grain bullet which is right there with the 7.62x39 from an EIGHT INCH BARREL!

A 125 grain bullet at 2250 fps = 1,405 fp of kinetic energy! Again, from an EIGHT INCH barrel!

There isn't a 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, or .45ACP that gets anywhere NEAR the .300 AAC from a SHORT BARREL!

Obviously a .300 AAC is capable of putting accurate fire out to 300 meters and well beyond...NOT SO with all the true pistol calibers.

Even the 5.56x45 from a 7.5" barrel is capable of over 700 lb-ft of KE...a number the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP will NEVER reach!

Clearly the right answer isn't a "pistol" round in a rifle platform but a RIFLE round in a rifle platform! There is a REASON you don't seen the cops and SO teams carrying HK MP-5's anymore, nor even the supposedly wonderful Kriss carbine in .45 ACP. The reason is because everyone who kill people for a living has "discovered" that even a "weak" 5.56x45 beats all the aforementioned pistol round everyday of the week. Swap in a .300 AAC and NO autoloading pistol round can even pretend to compete.

 

[gunnutery]

That carbine with the HK USC mag well is cool, but I can't understand why they'd make a mag well to accept such expensive magazines. No doubt on their quality though.

 

[barnbwt]

"The .300 AAC was DESIGNED from day one to be highly efficient in SHORT barrels"

Pretty sure it was designed from day one to be highly efficient of commonly available reloading components . It's limited powder capacity (for a 30cal centerfire) also kind of requires that it be efficient in short barrels, since there just isn't that much gas generated compared to, say, 308 or 30-06 main rifle chamberings.

"There isn't a 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, or .45ACP that gets anywhere NEAR the .300 AAC from a SHORT BARREL!"

There isnt' a 9mm, etc. that is anywhere near as loud/bright/obnoxious, either. There's a reason not all people shoot 10mm and 357mag handguns, and it's the same reason some folks prefer pistol carbines.

FWIW, a 16" 9mm is nearly ear-safe, and no 200$ stamp or one year wait needed. So yes, there actually are some things PCC's can do that rifle caliber carbines cannot

TCB

 

[Ed Ames]

I tend to think there are three sorts of PCC that have practical interest. The first (for me) is made up of magnum revolver rounds (for the most part), e.g. a .357 lever or .44mag semi-auto carbines. I've fired a few and they seem like a really practical choice if you already shoot the round in question. The second is the magazine-swapping small-as-possible carbine to come as close to giving SBR functionality with a 4lb weight penalty instead of a tax stamp. It is basically made up of the SUB2K and some converter kits that use pistol frames, though there may be others that fill this role well. I like my sub2k even though it is a bit absurd. The third is using pistol ammo as a lower cost training ammo in a multi-caliber platform e.g. 9mm ARs.

There are others that have historical interest.

For the OP's stated practical use, a SUB2K would be my choice if the person who will carry it is already carrying a pistol with the same magwell. A .357 lever gun would rise to the top if the person was carrying a .357 revolver.

Even the 5.56x45 from a 7.5" barrel is capable of over 700 lb-ft of KE...a number the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP will NEVER reach!

As far as I can tell 135gr cor-bon .40S&W from a 16" barrel tops 800fpe, according to performance info from Ballistics By The Inch.

 

[Walkalong]

a 16" 9mm is nearly ear-safe,

The ringing in my right ear insists that I remind people to wear ear protection.

While the 9MM from a carbine is certainly much easier on the ears than many thing, it is not safe to shoot them with no hearing protection.

"nearly ear-safe", but not. It will do damage. And, so far, damage is still permanent.

In a defensive situation with no hearing protection? Darn tootin, it's a lot better.

 

[barnbwt]

Perhaps I should have underlined "nearly." But it was just bit louder (through muffs, I might add) than higher power air rifles and long barrel 22s I've shot; bit of an eye opener. Of course, this was outdoors; indoors would be plenty loud.

TCB

 

[Mad Machinist]

That carbine with the HK USC mag well is cool, but I can't understand why they'd make a mag well to accept such expensive magazines. No doubt on their quality though.

I'm running the AR45 upper on a standard lower with a magwell adaptor that slips in like a mag and is held in by the stock AR mag catch. The USC mag is a Promag (around $38) and pretty well made...it has steel feed lips....shown in the pic is a 15 round mag.....the adaptors uses a paddle release like an AK....mag design dictated it....but it allowed me to make use of the last round bolt hold open capability of the magazine. Takes less than 60 seconds to shift form a 5.56 to a 45.....just pop the upper off and replace...slip in the magwell adaptor ....put the mag in and start shootin. The prototype has over 500 rounds through it already.....actually the prototype upper has over 20,000 rounds through it....the adaptor and mags have 500....pictured is a new production upper....

 

[gunnutery]

Nice, I didn't realize that there were aftermarket USC mags. Glad to hear, otherwise it'd hardly be worth it for what H&K mags run.

 

[eastbank]

this was bought for 300.00 with one thousand rounds of ammo, sling,four magizines and bayonet. if i want a folder a repo folder stock can be had. and i would take the .30 carbine round over a 9mm,40sw or a .45acp. but thats just me. eastbank.

 

[stressed]

Have you shot a sterling carbine before? Sterling is the most reliable SMG in existence, and being you a left, mag feeds from the left anyway. UK used from WWII to gulf war