Pistol caliber (lever gun ) barrel length

[Beck]

In a levergun, it depends solely on the features present. A short forend with band, banded magazine, carbine style buttplate and round barrel make it a carbine. A butt cap, crescent buttplate and round, octagon or half round with a dovetail magazine hanger make it a rifle. Barrel length is way down on the list. You can have a short rifle with a shorter barrel than a carbine.

Yep, sounds reasonable, but like I said, over the years it seems to depend on who you ask. Barrel length seems to play a big role in how long guns were historically categorized in the history of the carbine as a shortened rifle.

Anyway, interesting to note that Winchester's current catalog lists their 1892 carbine as having a 20" barrel.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1892/model-1892-carbine.html

 

[halfmoonclip]

I'm lucky to have a pre-safety Pre-Braztec Rossi 92. It has a traditional half-cock hammer safety position that has always worked just fine. There's a peep sight available for the newer ones with the button safety. People remove the safety and drop in the peep. Nice way to extend sight radius if you don't mind losing some of the cowboy vibe.

Tang sights were the 19th century Red Dot, and are entirely appropriate on vintage style rifles. Now I'll grant you, they were more common on longer hunting/target arms, than on handy carbines. That said, I still like them. At 3/4 of a century, they still let me shoot irons.
I have a much older gallery pump, more like a Winchester 06/63, from Rossi, maybe the vintage of yours. That thing has seen a bazillion rounds of .22 LR,L,S, is beautifully finished, always works. It is 16", and wears a 19th Century tang sight, from a buddy's junk box. It's a ball to shoot.
The Brazilians make some great stuff; at least their current safety is far less obnoxious than the crossbolts used on newer Winchesters.
Moon

 

[CraigC]

Yep, sounds reasonable, but like I said, over the years it seems to depend on who you ask. Barrel length seems to play a big role in how long guns were historically categorized in the history of the carbine as a shortened rifle.

Anyway, interesting to note that Winchester's current catalog lists their 1892 carbine as having a 20" barrel.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1892/model-1892-carbine.html

Of course it's reasonable, it's fact, not opinion. It's also specific to leverguns, not long guns in general.

The current Winchester is a carbine. Do you see the difference between that 20" carbine and this 20" rifle?

Forgot to add that a rifle may also have a shotgun butt and/or a pistol grip. Carbines are straight grip only.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I have to admit at 73, and no kids or friends to hunt with, do not do much hunting anymore. I traded for a 16 inch barrel stainless Rossi R 92, 38 special/357 mag, brand new, and a brand new stainless
Rossi, R 92 20 inch barrel, 45 colt/ 454 casull. It is easier to aim and hit with a carbine than a pistol. I did change the rear sight to a peep sight from Steves gunz, and the mag tube follower, from plastic to metal.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I also reload currently for 38 special/357 mag, and 45 colt. I plan to set up for 454 casull, buy some new cases, and small rifle primers and load for 454

 

[P89DCSS]

I'm lucky to have a pre-safety Pre-Braztec Rossi 92. It has a traditional half-cock hammer safety position that has always worked just fine.

The newer Rossis have the half-cocked safety and the hated button safety. I don't have much history with levers so, like many others, I don't feel the need to remove it. I like being able to clear the tube without any chance for a discharge.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

I removed the funky safety's and replaced with pins from STEVES GUNZ, and also replaced the buckhorn rear sights with peep sights from him, and the plastic magazine followers with metal from him.

 

[Beck]

The newer Rossis have the half-cocked safety and the hated button safety. I don't have much history with levers so, like many others, I don't feel the need to remove it. I like being able to clear the tube without any chance for a discharge.

If you're one of the few that is ok with that god awful button safety, more power to ya. For we traditionalist it's a very recent unnecessary feature. The Winchester 92 and its clones were around for over 100 years before Braztec added that button to the Rossi. There's zero chance of discharge when clearing the tube without a button safety, if you know what you're doing and the carbine is not defective. But if it doesn't bother you it's all good.

 

[Beck]

Of course it's reasonable, it's fact, not opinion. It's also specific to leverguns, not long guns in general.

The current Winchester is a carbine. Do you see the difference between that 20" carbine and this 20" rifle?

Forgot to add that a rifle may also have a shotgun butt and/or a pistol grip. Carbines are straight grip only.

View attachment 1197950

I changed my mind. I was being gracious. You came back with a snarky comment about it being fact. Like I said, people have different opinions on the issue. Barrel length is chief among them. Looking back over the history of lever actions it's not as simple as you claim. For example, the Spencer Rile was a rifle with 28 - 30 inch barrel, and it had three barrel bands.

You'll have to provide detail and comprehensive references to prove your opinion is "Fact." Until then I say opinions are like asterisks; everybody has one *

 

[CraigC]

I changed my mind. I was being gracious. You came back with a snarky comment about it being fact. Like I said, people have different opinions on the issue. Barrel length is chief among them. Looking back over the history of lever actions it's not as simple as you claim. For example, the Spencer Rile was a rifle with 28 - 30 inch barrel, and it had three barrel bands.

You'll have to provide detail and comprehensive references to prove your opinion is "Fact." Until then I say opinions are like asterisks; everybody has one *

I wasn’t being snarky. It is fact. Sorry that triggers you.

 

[CraigC]

I changed my mind. I was being gracious. You came back with a snarky comment about it being fact. Like I said, people have different opinions on the issue. Barrel length is chief among them. Looking back over the history of lever actions it's not as simple as you claim. For example, the Spencer Rile was a rifle with 28 - 30 inch barrel, and it had three barrel bands.

You'll have to provide detail and comprehensive references to prove your opinion is "Fact." Until then I say opinions are like asterisks; everybody has one *

I don't have to prove facts, it's all there in historical record. Here are some examples. Not the features I posted about earlier and the designations "rifle" and "carbine".

Crescent butt, pistol grip, long forend with cap, octagon barrel with dovetail magazine hanger makes this a short rifle.

Carbine buttplate, straight grip, short forend with band, round barrel with banded magazine attachment make this a carbine. Note the barrel length is a non-factor.

Same thing here, all on one poster.

The point being, it does not "depend on who you ask" or anyone's opinion, it depends on what features are present.

*Note this was all muddied later on when everyone started mixing features like forend caps and barrel bands, along with putting shotgun style buttplates on everything, rifles and carbines, probably simply for ease of manufacture.

 

[3Crows]

The Marlin CBS does not bother me one bit either. I have rifles with and without. I prefer with. I bought the kits to remove them and had my rifles laid out, kits and tools and everything set to go and a cup of coffee. Got going and took the first safety button out, looked at it, and asked myself what the h--- am I doing. I put it back in, packed up the kits and toseed them in my spares box.

Now the Rossi I have bought that started this thread. I do not like that extra safety. The Marlin CBS I have trained myself to swipe it on and off with my thumb. So much so that a couple of my blued pre-safety rifles have a wear mark from me automatically swiping the CBS . But the Rossi is up top in a position that I do not see being easy to manipuulate and it is kind of small and fiddly. So, it will be coming off pronto. I have SG peep coming and if I do not like that I will do something else, even if I need to machine my own delete.

 

[CraigC]

For me the safety is a tossup. I can easily ignore the Marlin or replace the Rossi. Though I think the Marlin is easier to accidentally engage, which is not a particularly good thing.

 

[OLDE RETIRED COASTIE]

Steves Gunz makes a neat little pin that takes the place of the safety. I replaced the two I have with those pins. I also replaced the buckhorn rear sight with a neat little peep sight from him , and replaced the plastic mag tube followers with metal ones from him. Now they look more like a real winchester, and work the same too

 

[Mal H]

I have deleted several posts in this thread due to arguing and language.

The topic should be settled by now, but if not, a new one can be started as long as it is discussed a lot more civilly. Closed.