Pistol or Carbine for older people?

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peacebutready

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I have a couple of aged 70-ish relatives. They are currently in excellent health. One male, one female. I'm trying to decide whether to recommend a pistol or a carbine like the AR in 9mm or another carbine like the Beretta or Theron. This would be for home defense. Any opinions what they would be better off with?

Happy Holidays.
 
If they are not shooters, they might be better served with an inexpensive double barreled shotgun in any gauge (preferably with the barrels trimmed back to 18 - 20 inches). It's easy to load, uncomplicated, handy, and effective. Shot selection will allow them to tailor their loads to their environments.
 
I suppose it really depends on how comfortable/familiar they are with firearms. A lot of females might not like a handgun because their first comment upon picking up a polymer pistol is how heavy it is, where men would probably say a glock is light, especially when comparing it to a steel 1911. Women (especially older women) will more than likely have an issue with racking the slide on a semiautomatic pistol. They will most likely use the over the top method, which can also result in pinched fingers. I think a revolver would be pointless because they almost all shoot ridiculously overpowered magnum loads. So for a female I think anything in the AR platform would be the way to go. An AR15 is extremely shootable in any caliber due to the recoil being straight back into your shoulder, and causing little or no muzzle rise. I have a hi point 9mm carbine, and although I like it, I would much rather shoot my AR in 223 or 300 blackout. Even though 9mm is a pretty light cartridge, the hi point doesn't deliver the recoil very well. ARs also have adjustable stocks for smaller people. The only issue with the AR is the price.

For the guy I think he would take to a handgun much more. It can be kept in a nightstand for easy access, and if he was in the service or law enforcement he should be familiar with handguns and be able to re-learn how to shoot one very quickly. But if it's a 1 gun for both of them deal, some sort of carbine is the way to go. I don't want to exclude things that aren't an AR because I haven't seen or shot any carbines from any other manufacturers.

Overall the thing with it being a "home defense" gun, is all in the head of the owners. Unless they live in a really bad neighborhood, the chance of a break-in is low, and the chance of somebody breaking in with the intent to harm the occupants is even lower. If somebody breaks in they should retreat and lock themselves in the bedroom with a loaded gun pointed at the door on the phone with the police. So the biggest thing is if they are ever in that situation, give them a gun that they feel completely confident they will be able to defend their life with. Get them something that has has manageable recoil so they will want to practice and get good with it.

Another option is always a Ruger 10/22. It is absurdly easy and fun to shoot (as long as you can find ammo), and it's not intimidating for anybody to learn to shoot. And although it's just a dinky little 22, it is enough to get the job done (especially when you have 25 shots). If you can't hit what you're aiming at and recoil makes follow-up shots difficult, then the gun isn't suitable for home defence. An intruder is going to be more deterred by bullets entering his body then by a person unloading a noise machine and not hitting anything. This is just my opinion, as I have never been an intruder and have never been shot at.
 
I have a Beretta Cx4 for my wife. She knows how to handle and function a handgun, but a carbine is is much earlier to use and make accurate hits. The little carbine is capable of accurate hits out to 100 yards (with a red dot)!

Proficiency with a handgun takes continual practice. Not so much practice is required to maintain proficiency with a carbine/rifle. It's also easier to safely wield (muzzle control) than a pistol. Firing a handgun of any caliber indoors in a defense situation is likely going to permanently destroy hearing. I have never fired the cx4 inside, but firing it outside without hearing protection is not bad (not the best thing, but not like firing a 9mm pistol).

Another option would be a single shot shotgun in 20 ga. I also think a saw a small side by side with a picatinny rail for a weapons light mount.

Just a few ideas.
 
In the home opens up options, no conceal issue. I believe that once you start adding physical factors to any one not in the prime of life you go to a long gun.

Lack of practice, long gun. Ease of use, long gun. Best chance of hitting target, long gun. etc.
 
An ergonomic AR in a pistol caliber would be a dandy choice. The 9mm JR ("Just Right") version is very nice. Possibly the Keltec Subrifle with Glock mags.

If price is an issue, then the M&P-22 would work.

If that's still too expensive, then the 10-22 with 25 rd mags.
 
An M1 Carbine would be great for them. Kahr is making good, new ones if they don't want to go the G.I. route.
 
Is there a reason this is an either/or question?

In other words, there are two potential roles to be filled here - carry is best suited by a handgun, while hunkering down in a safe place is more a long gun role.
 
An M1 Carbine would be great for them. Kahr is making good, new ones if they don't want to go the G.I. route.


The gentleman would definitely love the M1, but he has no tolerance for junk. I read of issues with the Kahr one. Fulton Armory is another possibility but they're expensive.
 
With an autoloader, are they honestly going to invest the time & effort to learn how to quickly clear stoppages and maintain this skill?

How about a Rossi Circuit Judge .410 shotgun/.45 Colt? It's a 5 shot, 18" bbl revolver shotgun that's lightweight, easy to handle, and doesn't jam. Load it with Federal Premium 000 buckshot (.36 caliber), which is available in a 5 pellet or 4 pellet load (they can choose which load is easiest for them to shoot).
 
Both.
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My 70+ year old Mother is quiet the shot with either.
 
i would recomend a 9 mil carbine an ar [or and pleas dont kill me for saying this]... but if price is a problem than...gulp a hi point carbine i have heard good things about them
 
If it were my grandfolks, it would be a 9mm pistol. easier to move through doorways, keep in the bedroom drawer, etc.
 
I have a couple of aged 70-ish relatives. They are currently in excellent health. One male, one female. I'm trying to decide whether to recommend a pistol or a carbine like the AR in 9mm or another carbine like the Beretta or Theron. This would be for home defense. Any opinions what they would be better off with?

Happy Holidays.
Recommend both.

A good handgun and a good carbine. If they are on a budget I'd recommend a simple .38 2 or 3 inch revolver, maybe the Ruger LCR, and a High-Point 9mm carbine.

Deaf
 
A carbine would be a good choice. Light, short, easy to shoot, low recoil. I definitely wouldn't get a pistol caliber AR, what is the point? Less power, probably higher penetration through walls and they are finicky and expensive.

For an AR, stick with 5.56 and OTM or SP loads. Triple the energy, much better terminal ballistics, less penetration in a structure in the event of a miss and recoil is hardly an issue w/ .223/5.56.

An M1 carbine as mentioned above with a good SP load is an excellent choice. Ideally, carbine would have a light and quality RDS, but even before accessories it will likely be the most expensive choice.

A 20 GA pump (standard or shorter LOP youth model) is a solid choice blending power and shoot-ability with lighter weight and lower recoil as well as low cost.

Take them shooting an example of each firearm type (HG, shotgun, carbine.)
 
My father is 92. He has a Kel Tec PMR-30 for HD.

Light recoil and 30 rounds(25 because we don't fully load the mag). He has had various shotguns and pistols over the years but settled on this one last year. Of course he did because I can't find another one to buy right now.

At 70 I think any of the carbines would work just as well so lonag as you are strictly speaking inside the home.
 
peacebutready: I have to agree with (( PILOT`s )) sugestion of an old M1 Carbine. Some where in an old Military Field Manual, I read where the US ARMY said the US M1 CARBINE was the easyest weapon to teach a person to shoot effectively at that time. And that a new inexperinced person using a M1 CARBINE will hit the person He is shooting at more often using one. IMHO The M1 CARBINE is easy to carry, easy to shoot, low recoil, and has a low report when fired. I have shot quite a few M1 CARBINE`s over the years and even in Viet Nam and can`t recall any malfuctions for me, or that were commonly reported by any other ((( Combat Troops ))). And if I remember right the old Carbine is easier on your ears in an enclosed area than much of anything I have ever used. Again IMHO the old M1 CARBINE is quick, easy to point an shoot if needed, and it will darn sure get the job done when called upon.
ken
 
If they are not shooters, they might be better served with an inexpensive double barreled shotgun in any gauge (preferably with the barrels trimmed back to 18 - 20 inches). It's easy to load, uncomplicated, handy, and effective. Shot selection will allow them to tailor their loads to their environments.
If someone isn't an avid shooter, then a hard-recoiling gun with a capacity of only 2 shots, that is difficult for a novice to reload quickly, may not be an ideal choice. For a skilled shotgunner, a coach gun packs extraordinary lethality into an extremely light and portable package, but I wouldn't consider it a novice's gun. It's certainly simple to understand, store, and operate, though, and it is inexpensive.

IIRC the NYPD Stakeout Squad (Jim Cirillo's group) deployed side-by-sides for a while, and I think their hit percentage was a very respectable 50%, but the capacity issue meant that an officer facing more than one assailant was statistically screwed unless he could transition to his handgun or had backup.
 
It seems to me that all the academic discussion is sort of silly until there's been some range time with various options.

Take them both to a nice outdoor range, pace off the longest distance in their home and shoot a selection of arms from that distance, half that distance, and 5 yards or so, to get a feel for each.
Use a torso-sized target, a paper bag on a stake would be a good option, or a big shoot & see type.

Then, knowing what they did and didn't like about each, selecting a few armaments for them would be mush simpler.

This is an afternoon or two of invested time, not weeks of tier one operator's mega-blasty super-tactical covert operations covert tactical course for operators that operate covertly and tactically in covert tactical operating groups
 
I have a couple of aged 70-ish relatives. They are currently in excellent health. One male, one female. I'm trying to decide whether to recommend a pistol or a carbine like the AR in 9mm or another carbine like the Beretta or Theron. This would be for home defense. Any opinions what they would be better off with?

Happy Holidays.
If they didn't come up with the idea themselves, what makes you so sure they will defend themselves? A lot will not under any circumstances. I recommend you leave self defense up to the individual.
 
Thanks and other

If they didn't come up with the idea themselves, what makes you so sure they will defend themselves? A lot will not under any circumstances. I recommend you leave self defense up to the individual.


The gentleman is a retired LEO with a .38 and no speed loaders. I think that's nuts, hence my concern. If he wants to stay with a revolver, maybe he should get an eight-shot .357, one of the heavy ones that may recoil no more than a .38 +P though a 30-35 oz revolver.

He has fired the M1 in the past and likes it. That is a good possibility.

Thanks for the advice, all. Have an excellent and happy holidays.

P.
 
I've been looking into these carbines and am very impressed with what I've found out about them.
http://www.mechtechsys.com/

If you go with a Glock based Mechtech in 45ACP you can run some pretty large magazine sizes and even a 50 round drum.

The 10mm option is very attractive to me and I'm thinking about getting my wife one.
The 10mm seems to really do well in the carbine length barrel and pick up quite a bit of velocity.
Here is a pretty good video of shooting 10mm over a chronograph in a straight up comparison between the carbines' 16" barrel and a pistols' 6" barrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUyQ-E9aEnI
27 rounds of hot 10mm hollow points is nothing to sneeze at :what: and the carbine makes it easy to shoot the 10mm accurately and with very soft recoil.

Everyone says they are well built/quality carbines and very tough.
Google 'em up and see if you like what you read...
 
one 'pro' for the AR15 (in addition to being easy to point and very low recoil) is that you can dud it up with some things that were made for competition/etc, but that would greatly benefit people with potentially reduced hand strength, such as oversized mag release buttons, the bad lever, and large size extended tac handles
 
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