Thoughts on pistol caliber carbines?

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swampcrawler

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I'm sure this is one of those topics that's been around several times but, I like the idea. A civilian is probably never going to need to employ a defensive (or offensive, really) weapon to any range greater than a 9mm or 40cal from a 16 inch barrel would be effective.

It would be nice to have something light, compact, reliable and with more range and accuracy than my pistol. But I can't seem to find one that seems... Well right. The hi points are... Hi points. The keltec seems questionable, the kriss is made of unobtanium, glock carbines are SBRs.

What is everyones favorite pistol cal carbine for defensive use?

I suppose the main argument against these carbines would be to just go with an AR. I personally don't care for ARs for some reason. Have one incorporated in a tattoo on my back, yet don't care to own one. Weird right?

So are there any major advantages to pistol cal over an AR or AK?

I know this is a kind of scatterbrained post but I'm trying to ask "which one do you like and why", but do so rather longwindedly. :)
 
I have a Beretta Storm Carbine in 9mm. Pricey, but great shooter. I feel very comfortable using in place of my 6920. The carbine has less muzzle flash / blast than my 6920, and makes less noise (not going to totally rock your hearing in an enclosed space). Also, I personally feel there is less of a risk of over-penetration, but as we all know this is heavily dependent on the type of ammo you are using.
 
I have to say that berreta is probably my favorite. Iv yet to have a chance to shoot one. Seems like it would be cake to get lots of rounds on target pretty quick.
 
The Beretta Cx4 Storm Carbine has a LOT to offer in a lightweight and rugged package. Spendy yes, but drop dead reliable. I'd go with the 9mm version over the .40cal or .45ACP.
 
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Pistol Caliber Carbines

My General Thoughts:

Pros: Probably same ammo as your handgun
Possibly same magazines as your handgun
Plenty accurate/hitting power out to 50 - 100 yards
Usually low recoil/flash/muzzle blast.
Cheap ammo.

Cons: Not good for long range shots
Often not legal for hunting
Not a large choice of models available.

If you are ruling out the Hi-Point (don't, they are great fun and they work but you get to make up your own mind) and Kel-Tec, you might have to pony up bigger bucks for a Beretta or try to find a used Ruger PC9 or Marlin Camp Carbine.

Good Luck.

Dan
 
Dan, I actually got a chuckle out of your response but certianly not in a bad way. Just showed how pros and cons differ between individuals.

My handgun is an HK45, so definitly no mag interchangeability.
45acp isn't cheap.

But pistol calibers are legal to hunt with here and range isn't an issue, because Louisiana, you can't see through the darn underbrush. :)

Looks like the storm is a popular little weapon so far!
 
Marlin 94, Henry Big Boy, Uberti, or a nice Winchester would be my top picks for a PCC. Classic, light, American, no magazines to loose, better sights (aftermarket XS sights) and a .44/hot loaded .357 can take small deer like we have here in Alabama.

Plus it is wayyyyyyy cooler.....:)
 
Marlin Camp 45 would be my grail carbine in a pistol caliber. Uses 1911 magazines which I have aplenty. Was also manufactured in 9mm. I did spot a Ruger PC9 at the LGS a few days ago, nearly identical to the 10/22 in stature, just wasn't in a position to part with what little money I had on hand.
 
So are there any major advantages to pistol cal over an AR or AK?

Yes. Aside from the range difference, fast, light-for-caliber expanding rounds expand or fragment much more decisively than slower, heavy-for-caliber ones. This means that you can tailor your desired penetration from a carbine from just a few inches in tissue (varmint loads) up to about 18", with much reduced chance of shooting through multiple rooms should any of your carefully aimed rounds miss.

Now, with well-designed ammunition, a PCC will give at least a little less penetration than the same expanding round from a handgun (due to the higher velocity), but it's nothing like what is possible from a rifle caliber. Handgun rounds also tend to penetrate like the dickens in structure, again, because they are relatively slow and heavy. These differences are one of several reasons that almost all US response teams have gone to carbines instead of submachine guns.

Downsides? Well, standard carbine will be louder, but that's why you're wearing those electronic muffs, right? :)

Sam, I made the mistake just now of glancing through some of that thread. I am now actually stupider than I was 10 minutes ago.
the minimum capabilities of a rifle can be eclipsed by the maximum of a pistol cartridge
:rolleyes: (Translation: the best a PCC can do is better than the worst a rifle could do.)
John
 
If I was getting a pistol caliber carbine I'd go with one of the Ruger 44 magnums. I've always wanted a Ruger Deerfield.
 
Don't rule out the Keltec: I have one packed in my seatpack survival kit (jet RSSK ejection seat survival kit) and it's set up to match the M9 Beretta that's on my torso harness. Same mags, same caliber, and I have a few *truly* large capacity mags stashed in my seat kit as well. Better than the M9 at keeping bad folks 50 yards away and/or shooting a rabbit for chow, and it's tiny when folded. This might be a specialized application, but it works for me. It's an absolute ball to shoot too, BTW. I love it.

Willie

.
 
My dad has the TWN aero survival rifle in 9mm. Nice little gun very light, and takes glock mags and is quite accurate. It doesn't have the best trigger though. Excellent mid range price too. Around 500 I think.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
I have a keltec sub 2000 that takes glock 22 mags and I absolutely love it. Its light, accurate and has been very reliable. It is probably the most "fun" gun I have and its easy to burn through a couple hundred rounds of ammo blasting water bottles. I also wouldn't hesitate to use it in a defense situation.
 
I think the best thing about PCC's is that most indoor ranges allow them but not full rifle calibers. 2nd best is the maximizing the round's effectiveness - usually a 16-18" barrel just about does it.

I have levers in .357 and .44 magnum and 9mm and .45ACP Camp carbines. All are great. The .45 Camp with +P is pretty hot but probably doesn't gain much with the last 3-4 inches of barrel.
 
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They shoot well enough, but ugly as sin in my opinion and they just look too fragile.

Function well and have almost no recoil.




not ugly to me!

and not fragile at all, rather sturdy in my eyes......


I agree that they function well and your right, no recoil with that downward bolt movement!

I love it, but to each their own.... :evil:
 
I have a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9MM and several Glocks in 9MM. But the Camp 9 is in pristine condition and it's now a collector rifle. I also have a Marlin (I just love Marlin Rifles) .357 Lever gun from the late 80s and a Smith model 66 in stainless. Another good combination because the .357 is a very reloadable and versitile round. So recently, I've been thinking about the ideal combo Carbine/Pistol set up that would have a bit more firepower, modern and something FUN to shoot.

I love 10MM and have been reloading 10MM for years. My favorite handguns are GLOCKs in 10MM. Glock 20SF and my Glock 29.

10MM out of a GLOCK handgun has more energy at 100 yards than a .45ACP has at the muzzle. This is truly a powerful handgun; think of 10MM as a .357 magnum only larger diameter. We can buy hot 10 or make it ourselves and it's really not problem getting 1300 FPS and over 600 foot pounds of energy.

Because I own and possess preban 15 round magazines for my GLOCK 20, I have a lot of firepower at hand; all in a fairly compact package. (I live in Southern California).

10MM doesn't bounce off a windshield like 9 does. It moves on through. With the proper bullet weight and shape, 10MM is an excellent hunting and woods carry gun. A Glock 20/29 will take care of you and take care of business.

In my opinion if you're going to run 10MM you should invest in reloading. It's nice to have the ability to manufacture ammo for a fraction of todays retail price.

Weight times speed is what foot pounds of energy is all about. High foot pounds translate into greater penetration and greater expansion (of hollow point designs). Since we usually load 10MM rounds at close to MAX PRESSURE already, the only thing we can do to increase SPEED is a longer barrel.

So I bought a MECH TECH Glock conversion unit. Ordered it December 29th and got it on March 5th. A bit over two months. Total cost was $418 and change.. Delivered to my front door. This unit is really high quality.!

http://www.mechtechsys.com/index.php

A man named David has made numerous YouTube Videos on 10MM ammo speeds. Testing all available ammo thru his CRONO. An epic work really.

He bought a Mech Tech and his video shows just how accurate and powerful this weapon can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edjW6MLab5M



The increase in speed and energy is amazing! See how hard hitting and zippy those hits are? wow.

For example running some Underwood Ammo in 135 grain (nosler hollow points, which I already reload) you can expect:

Normal glock barrel: 1558 FPS
6 inch KKM barrel: 1735 FPS
MechTech 16 inch: 2020 FPS

Other loadings and weights go up considerably in speed as well.

Incredible! This really puts the 10MM bullet at incredible speeds and makes for a good long range Carbine. I rather like handling this Weapon. It is easy to shoulder and is easy to aim. I installed an old MILLET red dot on her. (under $80 bucks)

I really like the idea of having a Trunk Rig or GET HOME rig that includes a GLOCK 20SF handgun with a companion Carbine equipped with a Red Dot and using the SAME magazines and ammo. Simple and effective. Small and handy.

There are Interchangeable parts on either frame. (You can use a GLOCK 21 .45ACP Frame if you want; identical to the GLOCK 20 frame) This could come in handy for a Survival Combo Package. Being out and about I want the ability to rebuild my weapons with a stick.

This entire package can be stowed in a locked case in the trunk. Ready when you are. Survival hunting would be easy with a red-dot carbine 10MM.

Mine has a fixed stock because California requires an overall length of 30 inches. But several folding stocks are available if legal in your area. With a companion Glock 20SF.

ojm1jd.jpg

The quality is very good on these conversion units. A bit heavier than I expected but the stainless steel barrel is heavy-duty and the action is solid. It never jams and runs whatever I can feed her.

qnlowl.jpg

A good combo package In My Opinion

alomm1.jpg

Be well, Bob
 
I agree about the Hi-Point carbines, I have three and they're awesome. But IMO it's hard to beat a good ol' M1 Carbine, although it's not a PCC.
 
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