Pistol or Carbine for older people?

[rondog]

I have three M1 carbines and an AR15 carbine.

The M1 is very light, quick handling, simple to operate, and quite powerful. I keep one by my bed for social situations. I'd recommend one to ANYBODY, and I certainly wouldn't be concerned with a new Kahr/Auto Ordnance.

The AR, while I'm quite familiar with it, is damn heavy and awkward handling compared to the M1. A single-point sling is nearly a must for me for any amount of carrying. It's also more difficult to charge.

While these are no challenges for younger folks, I'd never recommend any AR platform to people 70 years old or unfamiliar with them. Not for defense use. General shooting fun is another matter. Difficulty of operation, heavy, and generally intimidating. This can all be overcome of course with use and practice to gain familiarity and confidence, but anyone can operate an M1 carbine with confidence in minutes.

For two folks 70 years old, I vote for an M1 carbine hands down.

JMHO.

Oh, I also have three HiPoint carbines, I'd recommend them second. My .40 is a gun to be reckoned with.

 

[SC Shooter]

If they didn't come up with the idea themselves, what makes you so sure they will defend themselves? A lot will not under any circumstances. I recommend you leave self defense up to the individual.

This is spot on. I couldn't tell from this thread whether the chosen gun was for home defense or to re-take Iwo Jima. Listen to BigG. If they are not capable to deciding for themselves, they probably should not have a gun.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

M-1 carbine and a good wheel gun .

 

[Pilot]

The M1 is very light, quick handling, simple to operate, and quite powerful. I keep one by my bed for social situations. I'd recommend one to ANYBODY, and I certainly wouldn't be concerned with a new Kahr/Auto Ordnance.

I am hearing, and reading that new Kahr made AO M1 Carbines are quite good, and they do stand by their product. Prior to the Kahr acquisition, AO did have a spotty reputation which is obviously still hurting them.

 

[CA Raider]

something like a Beretta CX4 would be ideal, I would think. I would have one of those weapons for my own family, but the State of California deems them to be illegal. The idea of directing accurate 9mm fire apparently does not resonate with our law makers. Haha!

CA R

 

[Hangingrock]

How old do you have to be, to be and older person? Physical ability is not strictly age related. Generalities are what they are. If one is physically impaired then that's different no matter the age.

 

[grock5k]

My grandfather sticks to what is comfortable and familiar to him. He's an 88 year old Korean War Vet who keeps his G.I. 1911 in his bed stand and his M1 by the back door incase those damn musk rats try to build a nest under his dock. My dad's father who was a WII Vet was very comfortable with large handguns and shot his 357 and 44 magnums right up until he passed away. It all has to do with the individual and their personal preference.

 

[rondog]

Grock - your grandpa's name wouldn't be Walt Kowalski would it? <grin>

 

[CA Raider]

" He's an 88 year old Korean War Vet who keeps his G.I. 1911 in his bed stand and his M1 by the back door."

Good man.
Buy him a whiskey.

CA R

 

[Pyzon]

70 ish folks in good shape should be able to handle most of the suggestions mentioned, but as also mentioned once in this thread, what is the mental approach to self defense these folks are prepared to accept ?

Guns in the house are a great idea once somebody is in the house with ill intentions, but for folks of any age not totally devoted to self defense and the need to use these guns, then things can go downhill rapidly.

In the case of these folks, how hardened is their home exterior, with motion detecting lighting and the best locks on doors and windows ? If they have a garage, are their vehicles inside it every night ? If they have neighbors, are they aware of the neighbor's defense capabilities and intentions to help out if needed ?

What I am saying is, guns are great as a sorta last resort, but keeping the mutts outside is a win for all of us.

 

[jeepnik]

Why not look at a .410 or 20 ga shotgun. The .410 Mossberg is pretty light, and the recoil is negligible. There are a few 20 ga guns built on lighter receivers than those 20's built on a full sized 12 ga receiver.

Remington makes an 1100 in .410 that's only a bit over 6 pounds. It's has a 27" barrel, but any good smith could cut it back to say 19" to keep things safely legal.

 

[GEM]

We are always impressed by firepower and the blazing last stand defense as compared to thinking about how the gun will be used.

Do you conceive of the older person hunkered down - or possibly moving around the house, using the phone, using a flashlight, etc.?

Do you think they might have to fire a second shot?

Those considerations make the untrained older person with a long arm and especially a shotgun (pumping, recoil) an unattractive ergonomic package.

If they are not skilled - I think a standard handgun that they can manipulate will be quite adequate and efficacious.

Where will the long arm be kept? Will they have to totter off and retrieve it in a noticeable about of time as compared to picking up a handgun? Will the untrained have to go through some manipulations? How will the shotgun, Enuf said - be stored? Hot, cruiser ready - need to pump? Same with the carbine? Chambered, safety on?

A fumble fest for the older person as compared to a SW Model Ten. Pick up and bang.

How long can the older person hold the gun up, if they have to hold someone at gun point? Retention of long arms isn't trivial if you are older and untrained.

There is quite a difference from shooting a gun at the range and being in a fight with it.

 

[peacebutready]

How old do you have to be, to be and older person?

No particular age. It's just that they will get older in the future, of course.

 

[peacebutready]

70 ish folks in good shape should be able to handle most of the suggestions mentioned, but as also mentioned once in this thread, what is the mental approach to self defense these folks are prepared to accept ?

Guns in the house are a great idea once somebody is in the house with ill intentions, but for folks of any age not totally devoted to self defense and the need to use these guns, then things can go downhill rapidly.

What I am saying is, guns are great as a sorta last resort, but keeping the mutts outside is a win for all of us.

Their mental approach is gung-ho. He would be very devoted to defense.

Yes, avoiding the mutts in the first place is the best way to go.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My parents are in their late 70's and just moved to town from the mountains. In the hills, my Dad's security weapons were a .38 Charter snub with Speer 158 gr TMJ +P's, a .44-40 Ruger Vaquero with Winchester 200 gr JSPs, and an H&R 20 ga single shot with 3" Number 2 buckshot or 2 3/4" slugs. Since moving to town, I got my Dad a nice 1969 vintage S&W 10-5 4". That gun, along with the snub, are now loaded with the more "urban friendly" 125 gr Remington SJHP +P, and the shotgun with healthy 3" 20 ga loads containing hardened #4 birdshot.

 

[phil dirt]

Rossi Model 92 lever action .357 magnum, or loaded with .38 specials. If you go the .38 route, make sure they feed properly.

 

[rondog]

My noise investigator.....

 

[peacebutready]

Rossi Model 92 lever action .357 magnum, or loaded with .38 specials. If you go the .38 route, make sure they feed properly.

I took notice of that model. Does it feed .357 loads reliably?

 

[peacebutready]

My noise investigator.....

Auto-Ordnance? Does it feed soft-points reliably?

The stock looks nice.

 

[phil dirt]

peacebutready
Member


Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by phil dirt
Rossi Model 92 lever action .357 magnum, or loaded with .38 specials. If you go the .38 route, make sure they feed properly.

I took notice of that model. Does it feed .357 loads reliably?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mine does. Also, Winchester and Marlin both make .357 lever actions.

 

[peacebutready]

I took notice of that model. Does it feed .357 loads reliably?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mine does. Also, Winchester and Marlin both make .357 lever actions.

I should have asked if it feeds all types of loads reliably.

 

[tcj]

While I'm still a couple of years younger than them, personally I would go for a lever action in 357/38...low recoil, easy to handle and very accurate at all home defense distances. Maybe couple it with a 38/357 revolver.

If you shoot light lead loads the recoil will be closer to a 22 than a 9.

 

[rondog]

Not an Auto Ordnance, it's a Plainfield from the 70's. Stock is OK, I prefer walnut though, plan to swap it someday with a USGI stock. Carbine has an Ultimak handguard on it with a picatinney rail, which is awesome. Can't recall the name of the optic, but it works great. Rifle is very accurate. Don't really need the optic, the bullets hit dead center of the flashlight beam.

<edit> Sightmark, the optic is a Sightmark. An Aimpoint clone, but far cheaper. Just fine for my needs.

 

[phil dirt]

peacebutready said, "I should have asked if it feeds all types of loads reliably."
___________________________________________________________________

I've only shot one load through mine, American Eagle .357 158 gr jacketed flat nosed soft lead. I've read that some will feed .38 special and some won't. Mine has fed lots of the above mentioned .357 with no issues, however.

 

[smle41]

Someone here mentioned the Ruger 10/22.
When I was active duty Army, many years ago, my platoon sergeant kept a Ruger 10/22 for home defense for it's reliability, ease of use (everyone in the family could use it, even his Haitian wife who had not grown up around guns at all), overrall 'friendliness'. As noted, several rounds of high speed .22s would likely convince any intruder to go find greener pastures.
If it is finanincially doable to do both carbine and pistol, that is a highly reccomendable layering.
And, of course, this is a 'last ditch' thing.. I cannot agree more with hardening the entrances, fences, etc to keep the ghouls outside to begin with.