Pizza Guy: "It was my gun or his."

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Warren

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Pizza guy DGU

I'm in the same business, I'm glad this guy is all right. I'm POed that he might be charged for firing too many shots and was fired by Pizza Hut for failing to let himself be a victim.


Pizza guys, other food deliverers, taxi drivers, vending machine route drivers etc have a more dangerous job than cops yet we have to go to them for permission to defend ourselves. :rolleyes:

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/147538-6355-093.html
 
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Well, I agree that Pizza Hut policy sucks. However, I'm not surprised that there is an investigation, given that he removed the assialant's weapon and left the scene, and that there were no witnesses. If that story checks out, the Indianapolis prosecutor will not charge him. Given the circumstances, it seems like a reasonable decision - let the system investigate and then act accordingly.
 
Honeycutt said detectives had told him that "something could come out of it" because of the number of times he had shot Brown.


That just seems unfair. You shoot until the threat is gone.


There are a lot of prosecuters out there they would like to hang someone for this sort of thing. I hope this is not one of them.
 
I have a friend who delivers pizza. She's also a girl who's rather attractive and small. I've talked to her a few times about at least getting some pepper spray to protect herself, but... she's hoplophobic in general.

I'm just afraid that one day I'm going to her about how she got robbed and raped or worse.

If I were a pizza guy, I'd most definitely be packing, company policy be damned. They care fire me if they catch me. I'd also probably be less likely to run into the "you fired a zillion bullets" prosector problem, given as to how I carry a 1911.
 
He made some mistakes though , he told the cops: "Honeycutt said that after Brown fell, with his gun arm outstretched, Brown said, "I just wanted a pizza." , Why tell them that , you were the only one who heard it , just shaddup give them the very bare facts and lawyer up. Why pick up the gun and boogie , you just did a delivery , go back to that door and have them folks call 911. Good shoot , bad awareness after the shoot. Ray
 
Deliveryman: 'It was my gun or his'

A warning if you ever have to use deadly force;
'Honeycutt said detectives had told him that "something could come out of it" because of the number of times he had shot Brown.'

Deliveryman: 'It was my gun or his'
http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/147538-6355-093.html

By Terry Horne
[email protected]
May 18, 2004


Marion County prosecutors will decide if any charges will be filed against a pizza deliveryman who killed an armed man during an apparent robbery attempt Monday night on the city's Far Eastside.

"I'm just satisfied it was him and not me," said Ronald B. Honeycutt, 38, of Carmel this morning.

Honeycutt said he pulled his gun and fired off all 15 rounds when, as he was about to get into his van, he turned and saw a man coming toward him.

"He said, "Hey, my guy," and as he said "Hey, my guy," he's lifting his arm up with his gun in his hand."

Honeycutt said he pulled his own 9 mm pistol and fired off all 15 rounds at the other man at close range.

The other man, Jerome Brown, 20, 9500 block of East 39th Place, was taken to Methodist Hospital where he died a short time later.

Marion County Sheriff Capt. Phil Burton said there were no witnesses to the shooting, which occurred about 11 p.m. in the 3600 block of Long Wharf Drive.

Burton said he did not know how many times Brown was shot but it was multiple times.

Burton said the investigators would present their findings to the Marion County Prosecutor's office.

Honeycutt said detectives had told him that "something could come out of it" because of the number of times he had shot Brown.

Honeycutt said he emptied his gun in less than 10 seconds and kept firing because he couldn't tell whether the bullets were striking Brown, who was three to five feet away. "He never ran. He never cried. He never moved. It was like I was missing him altogether."

Honeycutt said that after Brown fell, with his gun arm outstretched, Brown said, "I just wanted a pizza."

But Honeycutt said he didn't believe him, "because that's not what he wanted," he said.

The deliveryman said he later learned that Brown's gun never fired because there wasn't a round in the chamber. However, he did hear Brown's gun click two times, he said.

Honeycutt, who said he was laid off about a year ago from a transportation job with The Indianapolis Star, said he has been delivering pizza for 20 years. "I've always had a gun," he said. "I like delivering pizzas. It's a fair job, but I don't plan on dying for it. I know so many people that really got mangled up."

Honeycutt, who was delivering for the Pizza Hut store at 8932 E. 38th Street, said he had already made a $50 delivery Monday night where bystanders had badgered him. "I expected to get robbed," he said.

Then he drove to the Long Wharf Drive apartment. He said he noticed two men coming towards him as he was approaching the building but he doesn't know if either of them were Brown or associated with him.

After making his delivery, he turned around -- "to check my back one more time" -- and saw a man walking briskly toward him. He had reached his van and opened the door when he saw Brown raise his arm, he said. "Once he leveled that gun at me, it was my gun or his."

Honeycutt said he picked up Brown's gun after the shooting, because he feared Brown had an accomplice, and drove back to the store, just a couple of minutes away, where detectives later met him.

Honeycutt said he was fired from his job because he had violated the store policy against carrying a gun, which he was licensed to carry.

"It's my life. I choose which policy to follow."

A Pizza Hut spokeswoman, Patty Sullivan, confirmed that the ban on carrying weapons is a company policy.

Honeycutt said he had never had to fire his gun in self-defense before, although he had pointed at some would-be robbers once before.

"I'm a pretty down to earth kind of person. With everything that's transpired since 911, killing these days almost seems a necessity if it means your life or theirs."

Call Star reporter Terry Horne at (317) 444-6082.
 
I hope Mr Brown has a good lawyer and a sympethetic jury if it goes to trial. I don't blame Brown for what he did.

Situations like that would make any number of people empty their weapon, but stating the dying man's last words "I only wanted the pizza" might put him at a disadvantage with the D.A. if they press the issue.

No way to tell whether Brown wanted just the pizza or not, and easily could have changed his mind.

The first rule of post shooting-if you feel a desire to run your mouth, make sure its with your attorney.

Hope for the best........
 
Wow. That's almost unreal. 15 rounds of 9mm and the robber wasn't fazed - until he fell down.

Sucks for the robber, but he knew the risks when he got into that business. I wonder if he knew Pizza Hut employees are forbidden from carrying?
 
I'm glad that Honeycutt wasn't harmed during the robbery attempt, but he did use excessive force (as funny as it is in a morbid kinda way).
 
15 rounds of 9mm didn't kill the guy right away?

He was taken to the hospital?:confused:
 
Honeycutt said that after Brown fell, with his gun arm outstretched, Brown said, "I just wanted a pizza."

If you're too stupid to sign up for the free welfare money, do you deserve to live?

Seriously: it doesn't strike me as being very wise to throw your life away for a free pizza—especially when you don't even get one.
 
I hate to put it in this manner, but like someone else said, what did he do? Make someone using what the law defines as deadly force against him "too dead?"

Our whole premise is that we are responsible about it, and use deadly force if needed. Robbing someone at gunpoint, for a pizza, a $5 bill, or a $50 bill is a felony under all circumstances, is it not?

It would have looked better for the good guy had he called the police immediately, but none of that changes what happened: someone tried to rob him at gunpoint. Deadly force was allowed. He emptied his magazine.

His only real problem would have been if there was a second BG, in which case he might have needed some of those bullets.

This should NOT be taken to mean that I codone wanton killing, or even would enjoy killing. Having to take another life can't be fun, but if it's me or him, I'm not negotiating. If there was something as effective as a gun that was guaranteed to down but not to kill, I'd be all for it. There just isn't.
 
The delivery guy should've used a .45, because then the BG would've been thrown back 15 feet with the first hit and the delivery guy would've known he was hitting the BG. :neener:
 
nico wrote:
excessive force? so he made the theif too dead?

No, but in every handgun self defense course I've taken, I was taught to shoot two - three rounds center mass. A sure stopper is the "mozambique drill".... two in the chest and one in the head. 15 rounds on a single target seems excessive to me.
 
It does not sound excessive if he was getting no reaction as stated. It seems easy to say he should have used the Mozambigue drill. But who is to say he is aware of it and who is to say a particular person could even think of it under the circumsatnces? Unless, of course he consistantly trains to do so.

Then, of course, you would hear: He did not need to shoot the guy in the head. That's excessive force....
 
WingZero- your expert opinion on would ballistics notwithstanding, how exactly can 'excessive force' be demonstrated in an incident that ALREADY CALLS FOR DEADLY FORCE?

(PS: I agree with you on FTS. You leave out one important procedure. It goes like this:

1) Lethal Force is the only alternative to stop a threat.
2) 2 shots, COM.
3) 1 shot, head.
4) Check if threat is stoped, if not, GOTO #2 Repeat as nessicary.
 
Who is it here that has "Screw double-taps, I'm going for slide lock" in their sig? I think he/she may have a new role model.

How many bullets actually hit the BG out of the 15?
 
Given the fear factor and adrenaline rush I wonder about the driver hearing the 2 clicks from the would-be robber's chamber empty pistol. I would like to know what pistol the robber was using.
He made some serious mistakes after the shooting.
 
With just a little bit of training or spending $15 to read Tom Given's or Ayoob's book the delivery guy would have saved himself a world of grief.

He has been all over the local news giving impromtu interviews. For pete's sake ****! After reading some of his statements, it seems obvious he is embellishing slightly to make himself look better, which wasn't necessary.

Even though this guy his spouting off, he will likely not be charged with anything. This case seems pretty clear cut.
 
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