Pizza Guy: "It was my gun or his."

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No, but in every handgun self defense course I've taken, I was taught to shoot two - three rounds center mass. A sure stopper is the "mozambique drill".... two in the chest and one in the head. 15 rounds on a single target seems excessive to me.

15 rounds into someone is only excessive if the perp goes down after the first few shots. If it takes 15 into someone to stop his/her attack, then that's what it takes.

And just out of curiosity, what did the instructor teach you to do after placing 2-3 rounds center mass? Stand there and wait for the perp to fall?
 
He should have left the gun and called the police.

Him saying that the bad guy said "I only wanted a pizza" wasn't to smart
either. Give DA another shred of doubt (in trial).

Wonder how many times the guy got hit?

Did the BG have a criminal record?

Sounds like 'good shoot'.

Time to find a new career.
 
Honeycutt said he was fired from his job because he had violated the store policy against carrying a gun, which he was licensed to carry.

"It's my life. I choose which policy to follow."
Well said.

This guy did good. But he should shut his yap before it lands him in trouble.

As to 15rnds: it's not surprising that someone would take multiple COM hits and not fall immediately. If his CNS did not sustain a hit, he very well might not fall immediately. The human body is an amazing machine, and will defy predictions of how it should react. Too many variables.

As for slide-lock vs. FTS-drill: yes, the accepted standard in 'tactical response' to getting shot at it the FTS drill. Maybe this guy is a little behind on his Thunder Ranch classes...I'd cut him some slack on that one. ;)

- Gabe
 
How many here have actually shot at and hit a bad guy?

Unless you raised your hand, how can you "say" that 2 to the chest and 1 to the head is sufficient?

I've gone through a lot of training, and I have shot at and hit real people...

Some targets drop in 1/10th of a second from a single round. Some people are still moving long enough for me to empty 15 rounds from a 9mm handgun into the target easily. I mean we are only talking about 2 seconds here from first shot fired until 15th round is in the target.

Semper Fidelis
 
Cooper, in his "Principles..." writes of a guy who arrived home and encountered three Bad Guys. Our hero ran through three magazines of his 1911 without hitting anybody. I can see where somebody might empty a 15-round magazine in a panic situation.

Stress and adrenalin cause weird things, whether one is untrained or trained. One problem is that it's a bit difficult to practice real gunfights, in order to be able to consider them commplace events. :D

Art
 
Not to mention the fact that if there are certain types of drug involved the person receiving fire may be unlikely to feel it and keep functioning, that is a commonly heard statement from LEO's after a shooting.

It doesn't sound like this guy had any training and said himself that he kept firing because he thought he was missing. Self preservation mode.
 
I like stories like this because it teaches everyone reading it how important it is to NOT TALK TO THE COPS. From the training I have taken they have always recomended pointing out any evidence that might get lost or walked on. They also recomend saying "I was scared for my life" over and over. They also agree that stating a very short statement of what happened is not a bad thing as long as you keep it very short. The cops need to know when they arrive you are the good guy. If you don't tell them at least a little bit of what happened they will assume you are a crook. When they say a short statement this guys statement would have been. "He came at me with a gun, and was getting ready to rob me. I was afraid for my life" You have now said everything that needs to be said from then on out you should only say "I was scared for my life", or "I would like to speak with my lawyer". That is it, nothing else you say is going to help you any, just keep quiet!!
 
No, but in every handgun self defense course I've taken, I was taught to shoot two - three rounds center mass. A sure stopper is the "mozambique drill".... two in the chest and one in the head. 15 rounds on a single target seems excessive to me.


It's unreasonable to expect that the average Joe will react to a situation like this with the coolness of someone with loads of training.
 
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Jerome Brown wanted pizza so he pulled an unloaded gun on a pizza delivery guy? Usually, I just call Roundtable. I'll bet Jerome was surprised as those 9milimeter rounds passed through him. Every now and then the gene pool needs chlorine.
 
Some have commented about Honeycutt picking up Brown's gun a leaving the scene.

My guess is that Honeycutt didn't have a cell phone and took Brown's gun with him to go for help instead of just leaving it laying there.

On the other hand Honeycutt was probably out of ammo and didn't want to take any chances that Brown had a buddy hidingin the shadows.

I hope Yum! Brands, 1900 Colonel Sanders Lane, Louisville, KY 40213 (formerly Tricon Global Restaurants - parent company of Pizza-Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, A&W and Long John Silvers) gets a ton of calls and letters about Honeycutt getting fired for defending his own life with a legally carried firearm.
 
Greetings,
I suggest that everyone boycott Pizza Hut until they reinstate Mr. Honeycutt.

You can voice your opposition to his termination here:

http://www.pizzahut.com/contact/feedback_other.asp

Good Guy

1876796_BG1.jpg


Bad Guy

1876796_BG2.jpg




ktmhk53
 
The whole picking up the gun and driving off from the scene doesn't strike me as a moment of inspired judgement on the shooter's part. I wouldn't mind seeing an investigation by police here since it seems like it warrants it.
 
Nope, that was stupid. Driving AWAY from a house with that probably has witnesses and a phone inside, instead of asking them to call the police, is really dumb.

However, I have done really stupid things under pressure on occasion, and I've never experienced the pressure of an armed robbery, so I'm willing to cut him some slack. Poor guy should be wishing I had any say in the matter, though.
 
Honeycutt said he was fired from his job because he had violated the store policy against carrying a gun, which he was licensed to carry.

I've emailed Pizza Hut and told them that I'm boycotting until they change their policy.

Honeycutt should be glad that he was fired - he needs a job that doesn't put him in the unenviable of having to choose between his life and his job.

As for his actions: 15 rounds may seem excessive, but if the perp wasn't going down then it clearly wasn't. Further, the adreneline rush in such a situation tends to crowd out reason - even if the guy was on the ground, most people would continue to shoot. His comments afterward aren't going to help his case, but I think that he'll end up paying for what he did with nothing but a lot of bad dreams and a big bill from his lawyer.

As for those on this thread commenting about what they'd do, I would offer a kind word of advice: don't do that in a recordable format. If you are ever in a similar situation, a less-than-kind DA could dig up your statement(s) and claim that you had "aggressive or violent tendencies and fantasies." Stuff like "I would most likely have emptied every magazine I had into the perp, emptied his gun into him, stabbed him a few dozen times with my buck knife, and run the cadaver over with the pizza delivery van twice on the way out of the parking lot" will tend to erode any sympathy that a jury might have for you. I might add that even if you never face such a situation, the antis surf the Web and WILL use statements like this to steal even more of our rights.
 
WingZero
No, but in every handgun self defense course I've taken, I was taught to shoot two - three rounds center mass. A sure stopper is the "mozambique drill".... two in the chest and one in the head. 15 rounds on a single target seems excessive to me.
If you were taught to fire three times and then simply stop, even if the threat was still standing, you need to take some better classes.
 
I suggest that everyone boycott Pizza Hut until they reinstate Mr. Honeycutt.
Well, that and until they start making better pizza :neener:


At any rate, the following email is winging its way to Pizza Hut as I type this ....
According to this article in The Indianapolis Star: http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/147538-6355-093.html
Your company has fired one of its delivery drivers because he chose to legally carry a firearm to defend himself instead of risk becoming a dead Pizza Hut delivery driver.

It is unconscionable that you as a company would stand in the way of your drivers who are licensed to carry concealed firearms from carrying on the job. All across this country law abiding citizens have gone through extensive background checks and training to be granted the privilege of carrying concealed firearms, yet your company considers them unfit to carry?

At any rate, consider the boycott on ... this story is making the rounds of various 2nd amendment rights forums and web sites and you have probably received similar feedback from others.

I and my family will take our business to other pizza restaurants until this policy is revoked.

although I already know the only way those up the ladder at Pizza Hut would change their minds is if THEY where saved by one of their delivery drivers who defied policy and was armed.

I'm originally from Wichita Kansas (Pizza Hut's former HQ) and my wife worked for the ad agency that serviced Pizza Hut's national print advertising so we've had our fill of dealing with those idiots :p
 
Here's my letter to those <insert bad name>.
Pizza hut is a cold and cynical company that would put its fear of lawsuits ahead of the safety of its employees. Pizza deliveryboys are barred the means to defend themselves adequetly and as such have one of the highest on the job homicide rates of any job, period. In your corporate training material you tell the employees to co-operate with the robber, give him the pizza and money. However, in many cases the pizza hut employee gives his or her life, over twenty five dollars!

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/147538-6355-093.html
This article highlights the case of one of your employees, who saw the danger of the job and lawfully, but against pizza hut policy, carried a firearm to protect himself. When threatened at the point of a gun he reacted and neutralized the threat. And for potentially saving his own life and violating corporate policy you FIRE him? If your employees are defenseless and are mercilessly beaten for 25 dollars will you pay for their pain and suffering? If not, DO NOT PROHIBIT THEM FROM LAWFULLY CARRYING PERSONAL DEFENSE EQUIPMENT.

Until you change your policy, I and everyone I know who cares about the welfare of your employees will be boycotting you. Meanwhile we'll be purchasing pizza from Berkeley Pizza Collective, which by the way makes much better pizza than you all, until your short-sighted policy is changed OR you put an armed guard in every delivery car that goes to bad neighborhoods. Your choice.
atek3
 
Several weeks ago my wife and I re-did our CCWs at Caswell's in Mesa, Arizona that uses a FATS simulator as part of the course.

My scenario had a guy *in* "my truck" attempting to rig the steering column. Like a good student I presented my "Glock" and I addressed him, ordering him out of my truck. He came out all apologetic as if it were all a mistake and then he drew his pistol.

I felt that I began shooting too late, but when I did, I did two shots center of mass. The computer program then froze, but it froze with the perp still standing and with his gun pointing in my general direction. So I continued with a head shot. Since he was still frozen, I conintued until the "threat had ended." The program loaded the next scene with the perp on the ground.

I asked the instructor "how many shots did I get off? Five? Six?"

He responded, "Uh, looks like eight." He changed the display to show each of the shots, two to the chest, six to the head. One, I was surprised I shot so much, and two, I was surprised that I had hit his head with such a tight six-round group as I thought I was point-shooting (of course, heck, the digi-perp wasn't moving for the last five of the six head-shots...).

Most in the class didn't get into the role very well and seemed embarassed to bark commands at the digitial villian. In my case told the digi-perp to "Get the F*** outta my car!!!" I'm not sure if the instructor appreciated my language or not.

Rick
 
How can Honeycutt be accused of using excessive force, when every police shooting I've read recently demonstrates that highly-trained police officers typically empty their wonder-nines during a shooting. Remember the Dialo case in NYC, the man who was shot 40 times. I didn't blame the police of excessive force then, I don't blame Honeycutt of excessive force now.

Shooting a mag dry in self-defense sounds like a natural reaction, not excessive force. This is second guessing of the worst nature.:mad:
 
How can Honeycutt be accused of using excessive force, when every police shooting I've read recently demonstrates that highly-trained police officers typically empty their wonder-nines during a shooting. Remember the Dialo case in NYC, the man who was shot 40 times. I didn't blame the police of excessive force then, I don't blame Honeycutt of excessive force now.

Shooting a mag dry in self-defense sounds like a natural reaction, not excessive force. This is second guessing of the worst nature.

This just proves that you better not rely on just the mag in the weapon, you better have a few more or a BUG. :D
 
The Pizza Guy should come down here to Florida & work for Hungry Howie's pizza. They have had a few such incidents and the company has praised its employees for their bravery in preventing robbery and threats to employess & bystanders.
 
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