Plated bullet question

[Onlyme]

Greeting, y'all,
I have been hand loading long enough to know that asking questions is a good thing. So, I am loading a 200gr plated round nose 45 cal bullet. Previously, I had always used FMJ; don't remember how I acquired these plated items. The problem is, one bullet's plating pulled up as it seated in the brass. Is this cartridge usable? will that wrinkle interfere with chambering or firing? Your thoughts, please.
Specifics: Federal brass, CCI primer, 6gr ZIP, 200gr plated round nose
intended for M1911 4.5" barrel

 

[troy fairweather]

I'd toss it or pull it down, no reason to temp any problems on one round.welcome to thr.

 

[Crosshair]

I'd shoot it for plinking and just not expect anything as far as accuracy.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Are you seating and crimping as a single step?

while jacketed bullets are pretty forgiving there, plated may require you to segregate your steps.

 

[ImjinScout85]

Just shoot it, not going to cause anything, think of all the lead bullets that were shot in the old days,

 

[Docendo Discimus]

Greeting, y'all,
I have been hand loading long enough to know that asking questions is a good thing. So, I am loading a 200gr plated round nose 45 cal bullet. Previously, I had always used FMJ; don't remember how I acquired these plated items. The problem is, one bullet's plating pulled up as it seated in the brass. Is this cartridge usable? will that wrinkle interfere with chambering or firing? Your thoughts, please.
Specifics: Federal brass, CCI primer, 6gr ZIP, 200gr plated round nose
intended for M1911 4.5" barrel

If you could post a picture of the round we could give more guidance on if it is good to go or should be pulled apart.

 

[Walkalong]

Flare the case a little more so it won't catch on the plating and wrinkle it. There is so little inward movement on a proper .45 ACP taper crimp" that it is perfectly feasible to seat and crimp at the same time, although you may be over crimping.

Berrys plated 230 RN

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

First, welcome to the club. I think most people have wrinkled at least one plated lead bullet in their time. Second, welcome to the forum. This is a great place to get answers. Some are even helpful . Third, if it passes the plunk test in your guns chamber, shoot it. If it won’t plunk, pull it apart, run it through a .452” sizing die and load it. 6gr of Zip is a starting load. Should net between 850 and 900fps in a 4.5” barrel. You’re in no real danger of leading your barrel or sticking a bullet. Still, was it me I’d make sure that was the last round in the magazine not the first.

 

[GHinNH]

As our esteemed moderator Walkalong said, it sounds like you need to flare the case slightly more.

With plated bullets, it's a fine line between not enough and too much. the same for the crimp. If you use Lee dies, I do not use the Carbide "factory crimp" die as the final carbide resize will crush the case into the soft bullet making it loose in the neck.

 

[Walkalong]

I think most people have wrinkled at least one plated lead bullet

I know I have

 

[n2omike]

With plated bullets, it's a fine line between not enough and too much. the same for the crimp. If you use Lee dies, I do not use the Carbide "factory crimp" die as the final carbide resize will crush the case into the soft bullet making it loose in the neck.

I LIKE the Lee factory crimp die with plated bullets. Seems to be easier and more 'idiot proof' than the other style. Easier on the brass and bullet... and more tolerant of slightly different case lengths. I have one for every caliber I reload. But, whatever works for each person is what they should go with. Good Luck

 

[.45Coltguy]

I LIKE the Lee factory crimp die with plated bullets. Seems to be easier and more 'idiot proof' than the other style. Easier on the brass and bullet... and more tolerant of slightly different case lengths. I have one for every caliber I reload. But, whatever works for each person is what they should go with. Good Luck

I agree with this^^^. Never had a problem with Lee Carbide FCD's.

 

[mdi]

I treat the plated bullets the same as I do cast. I use lead bullet starting and work up if necessary. I prep the brass the same as I do cast, sizing, flare and "crimp". I have only loaded semi-auto plated bullets in 380 ACP. 9mm, and 45 ACP. no problems with my methods...

(My only problem was getting a consistent OAL with some Berry's 9mm 124 gr hollow points. With premimum jacketed bullets I could easily hold .003" variation, but the plated were only consistent to at best .006"-.007", In tens of thousands of 9mm handloads I have never needed to post crimp resize any.)...

 

[GHinNH]

Tough to get a photo to show but plainly visible on the first couple, Lee carbide factory size/crimp die crushes them .002-.003 depending on the brand of case. Same thing with 9mm die so... whatever, not for me thanks. Took me a while to figure out what was going on, Berrys/XTreme/Speer copper plated didn't matter, they all did it. Something to keep in mind maybe.

 

[Onlyme]

Just one wrinkle so far, happened during bullet seating. I do a separate crimp step.
Thanks for the input.

 

[lordpaxman]

@Onlyme, welcome to THR!
I’ve wrinkled more than a few, in different calibers. They all went bang and pretty much hit where the gun was aiming.
I’m surprised it wrinkled if you seat and crimp in different steps, plating isn’t usually that delicate unless you didn’t bell enough and have really good neck tension. It’s one of the reasons I like plated over coated, although I shoot a lot of both.
As to your question on chambering, that depends on your particular chamber but most likely will be fine. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[Atavar]

Your picture looks like the fc die is doing exactly what it was designed to do.
When I use a factory crimp die with plated bullets during the press setup I screw the seating die down until it just touches an empty case and then leave it there or maybe back it out 1/4 turn. That way I get no or virtually no roll crimp.
Using a factory crimp die that last 1/16 or 1/8 turn can make a *big* difference.
If I feel the need to crimp plated bullets without cannelure I use a taper crimp die lightly to pass plunk test.
Of course I figured most of this out on my own so have a grain of salt handy.

 

[GHinNH]

How is arbitrarily resizing a bullet while in the case in any way a good thing?

If I needed them a different diameter I'd run them through a swage die. I sure don't need them .003 smaller diameter rattling down the barrel.

Lead is soft and pliable, brass is stiffer, harder and under tension. The walls of the case are compressed pushing in on the bullet deforming it. Then the case springs back a degree and the end result is a loose bullet.

I'm not trying to come off like I’m argumentative, but how that can be what it was designed for I do not understand.

Like I said, just not for me.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

How is arbitrarily resizing a bullet while in the case in any way a good thing?

If I needed them a different diameter I'd run them through a swage die. I sure don't need them .003 smaller diameter rattling down the barrel.

Lead is soft and pliable, brass is stiffer, harder and under tension. The walls of the case are compressed pushing in on the bullet deforming it. Then the case springs back a degree and the end result is a loose bullet.

I'm not trying to come off like I’m argumentative, but how that can be what it was designed for I do not understand.

Like I said, just not for me.

Truly strange. I use FCD's for all of my taper crimps and nearly all of my roll crimps - rifle and handgun cartridges, bottle-neck and straight-wall, collet- and sleeve-type FCD's - and have not had this problem at all. I started reloading in1978 so I'm not exactly a noob but I'm going to claim to know everything, either. Perhaps it's a setup issue? All I can think of is running the crimp sleeve down too far and resizing instead of taper crimping.

Anyway, do what works for you and that's all you can do.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Hmm. Like GDF, I also started handloading in 1978 and use the Lee Carbide FCD on 30-30, 38spl/357 mag, .45 acp and .45 Colt. Haven't had any issues with plated, plain cast or coated cast that I can recall. As was mentioned, perhaps a set-up issue. Seems to work as advertised.

 

[GHinNH]

Truly strange. I use FCD's for all of my taper crimps and nearly all of my roll crimps - rifle and handgun cartridges, bottle-neck and straight-wall, collet- and sleeve-type FCD's - and have not had this problem at all. I started reloading in1978 so I'm not exactly a noob but I'm going to claim to know everything, either. Perhaps it's a setup issue? All I can think of is running the crimp sleeve down too far and resizing instead of taper crimping.

Anyway, do what works for you and that's all you can do.

It's not the crimp, it is the carbide sizing ring, and yes the taper crimp can exacerbate the problem. Yes even with the crimp stem removed from the die, that is how I came about discovering it.

That and I belong to a strictly reloading channel on Discord where others also suggested I do away with the final resize.

In any event, it no longer happens. Now I size, flare just enough, seat with the die up far enough to not crimp, then back the seating stem out and bring the die down just enough to remove any left over flare.

Not suggesting it's the only way, just works for me and no more crushed bullets. I've provided my findings and photo evidence, so I think that will do it for me on the subject. Cheers...

EDIT....
I suppose an edit is not technically breaking my vow of silence (?)
I forgot to mention that there are more than a few who have sent their FCD die back to LEE and they will open it up whatever you need if you choose to go that route.

 

[whughett]

I’ve loaded a thousand or so Berry’s in 9mm on a progressive, I haven’t seen wrinkled plating yet. But I haven’t actually been looking for it either. I’ll pay more attention while boxing on the next run.

 

[mdi]

K.I.S.S. Lots of discussion on what a Lee FCD for hand gun cartridges does (aka "Carbide"). Basically the die is an adjustable crimp die with a carbide siizing ring in the mouth. IIRC, the type of crimp, roll or tapered, is correct for the designted crtridge. If mis-adjusted dies or components result in a "fat" handload the carbide ring resizes down the cartridge to what it thinks it shoud be. That's what the die is deigned for. Some use the FCD because they screw up somewhere and need their handloads resized to chamber correctly. Many reloaders us an FCD "just in case", to make sure each and every cartridge will chamber correctly, for SD or competiton, or just 'cause. And some use the FCD because it came with the die set. I purchased one out of curiosity and it ruined my perfectly sized 44 Magnum cast handloads. I punched out the ring andth die functioned like any crimping die, but I had a Redding Profile Crimp die that did an excellnt job, so the modified FCD went into the round file.

I have been reloading semi-auto rounds in 4 diffeent calibers for 28 years (IIRC) and have never needed to rsize any cartridges to fit any gun. If a cartridge desn't fit a gun (plunk test) I find out why and fix it.

I believe using an FCD is peronal choice and no big deal. Many do, I don't. The only problem I see is a new reloader may have a problem and instead of telling him how to fix the problem and produce correctly reloaded ammo, he is told to merely hide the faux pas with an FCD.

On the Other hand the Lee Collet Style crimp die is an excelent tool and I own 3...

Jes an old guy's dos centavos...

 

[Misplacedtexan]

I know I have

Same here.