Plea To Voters:

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ConstitutionCowboy

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All of us registered voters get to vote this Tuesday.

"Well DUH, Woody! We know that! Sheesh!"

Welp, I'd like to make a plea to everyone disgruntled with the Republicans, everyone who is a Libertarian, and moderate to conservative Democrats: NOT TO VOTE FOR ANY Democrat RUNNING FOR NATIONAL OFFICE. The simple fact is that, though we still might have control of both houses, any shift towards a larger Democrat minority or, God forbid, even a Democrat majority lends political capitol to the anti-gun-rights faction in Congress, and could possibly eliminate any further hopes for a couple more conservative/originalist justices being placed upon the Supreme Court.

In these times of great need for the protection of our RKBA(among other rights, and our endeavors against the terrorists), and without a third option that is strong enough to keep the Democrat party that is riddled with anti-gun-rights operatives at bay, please do the tactically correct thing and vote the party with the only proven record to protect your RKBA from further infringement. There are people in that party who will push for the removal of infringements right now. Ron Paul comes to mind.

Remember that each and every vote grants political capitol. Give it to those with the best chance to keep things on the side of Freedom and your rights and keep Chuckie Schumer, Teddie Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, and Barbara Boxer et ilk at bay. Show the pollsters and political pundits what we are made of and where we stand.

Vote Republican for the sake of Freedom, Security, and Personal Sovereignty. Spread the word!

Woody

Look at your rights and freedoms as what would be required to survive and be free as if there were no government. Defend them as if your life depended upon them, because governments come and go, and you might only survive government if your rights are intact. B.E.Wood
 
Yup. Even though Democrat Nick Lampson might be A rated and endorsed by the NRA, putting him in Congress will still be a vote for Boxer, Pelosi, Conyers, Obama, Kennedy, Kerry, Schumer, Klinton, Feinstein, McCarthy, and Lautenberg because they are the 'rat leadership and they'll keep any freshman representatives on a short leash.

No thanks NRA.
 
Vote Republican for the sake of Freedom, Security, and Personal Sovereignty. Spread the word!
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You sure you wanna stand by that, given the track record over the last 6 years?

There's more to "freedom" than gun rights. Much more.
 
I'm very pleased with the last 6 years, overall.

GOP, all the way.
 
Amen, Woody! Exactly what I have been saying to anyone who will listen for the past six months.

Gunowners, it's time to act and VOTE like gun owners!!

Some gun owners I have talked to say "But there are 'other issues' to consider." True. And these other issues won't mean squat if we end up like the masses in England - disarmed, defenseless, subjugated.

Without personal liberty, nothing else will matter.

Think about it.

www.nrapvf.org
 
Without personal liberty, nothing else will matter.
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I actually agree with that statement. But I believe the power of the second amendment is being undermined from the direction of privacy -- how on earth are you ever going to overthrow a corrupt dictatorship (if we ever get to that point, as history suggests we might) if you can't organize your resistance because of widespread wiretapping, arrests without charges, legalized torture, sneak-and-peek searches, monitoring of all banking and purchases of goods (via credit and debit at least -- who thinks more than 3% of Americans still use cash for day-to-day purchases?), automated tracking and logging of location on a minute-by-minute basis (cell phones and vehicles), and so on? This is where we are now -- wanna try and predict where we'll be in 10 years?

The path our country is headed in is clear, and the Republicans seem to have a heavier foot than the Democrats (or at least a divided government seems to try and throw some weight on the brake on occasion). The Republicans are no friend of freedom. Neither are the Democrats.

But blindly voting for one under the "rather have Hitler than Satan in control" philosophy is suicide for freedom -- it'll just be death from slowly bleeding out, rather than from a bullet to the back of the head.

Please, people, look around and see what's happening. This isn't the country it was a decade ago, and I have some real fears about what the future might bring. We need an answer other than "let's vote for more of the same, because we're afraid those Democrats didn't learn about the consequences of the AWB and will do a repeat if given the choice!!!!!"

I fear a future where widespread ownership of NFA regulated arms won't make the slightest bit of difference. And I don't think I'm that paranoid.
 
Derek, I agree with your thoughts in your post #8. So what is the answer? What are we gun owners supposed to do?

Unity among gun owners would be a good idea, but that seems damn near impossible.

If we could get all 80 million gun owners to vote as one and vote for honest-to-God defenders of our right to arms, the problem would be solved.

I fear that gun owners won't wake up until we are faced with gun confiscation - and by then, it will be too late.
 
So let's all vote Democrat and throw our right to arms in the same dumpster with the other freedoms we have lost in the war on terror, right?
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You can't isolate one freedom, as none are safe without the others. People value the 2nd Amendment because they believe it's the one that keeps the others safe.

My argument is that there are threats to freedom that the Founders never dreamed would exist -- who in 1789 would have predicted a United States where 98% of the population is observed by a video camera most of the day? Where employers would track the movements of their employees every second of the day? Where the most routine conversations were recorded and analyzed by automated means? Where the Government could actually know everyone who purchased a particular book in the country? Where you couldn't look around a room, or around a clearing in a field, and know your conversation wouldn't be overheard? Where your "journal" (electronic for most of us) could be made to spy on us, and that couldn't be drowned or burned in a way to protect us from previous thoughts? Where a political candidate (or the powers that be) can retroactively dig through your mail and web browsing in order to discredit you publicly?

A world where you literally can't be sure that any conversation you're having is 100% safe from eavesdropping?

I don't care what guns you own. Without the right to privacy, you'll never be free. And without the right to privacy, you'll never use those 2nd Amendment rights you treasure the way the Founders intended.

Guess which party has proven to be a bigger threat to privacy in the last 6 years? Not necessarily in what they wanted to do (after all, T.H.E.P.A.T.R.I.O.T.A.C.T. was simply a mishmash of stuff that Clinton's Justice Department wanted passed, but that Republican congress simply wouldn't allow) but in what they've been able to make law?
 
The path our country is headed in is clear, and the Republicans seem to have a heavier foot than the Democrats (or at least a divided government seems to try and throw some weight on the brake on occasion)
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The facts don't support this.

Echelon was conceived and orchestrated by Democrats, and it appears to have been more abusive and more abused, with Republicans in Congress, so a divided government didn't help.

One BIG problem: the MSM has become a propaganda machine for the Democratic Party, so they will expose every possible speculation about some abuse as a big deal if the Republicans do it, whereas they will bury stories about real abuse perpetrated by the Democrats. Granted we have new watchdogs in the blogosphere, but if we find another Echelon, all we can do is vote Republican again in a few years.

Bear in mind, I'm not too excited about a lot of the Republicans, though there are some good individuals with R by their names.

As you know, privacy isn't something you wait around for the government to bestow upon you.
 
A simple analogy:

To the demorats gunowners are the 'Jews'.
The GOP needs to have the 'Jews' on their side to stay in power.

The survival of the GOP is tied to the survival of us 'Jews'.
So which one will more likely vote in our interests? Nuff said.

You think the patriot act and invasions of privacy are bad now? Wait til the 'rats are in charge.
 
A simple analogy:

To the demorats we are the Jews.
Right now the GOP still needs the Jews. Nuff said.

You think the patriot act and invasions of privacy are bad now? Wait til the 'rats are in charge.
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You are comparing the Democratic Party with the Nazis.

A poor choice.
Nazis and the Republican Party

Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in BLOWBACK that after World War II, Nazi émigrés were
given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U.S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions
in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees." Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not
come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas. The Nazi agenda
did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the
Republican Party.

Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll "for
their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare," among other purposes. The most important Nazi
employed by the U.S. was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's most senior eastern front military intelligence officer. After
Germany's defeat became certain, Gehlen offered the U.S. certain concessions in exchange for his own
protection. Gehlen promoted hyped up cold war propaganda on behalf of the political right in this country, and
helped shape U.S. perceptions of the cold war.

Journalist Russ Bellant (OLD NAZIS, THE NEW RIGHT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY) shows that
Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican émigré network. Pasztor, who served as
adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate
Hungary's Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council.

Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week,
disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The
article prompted six leaders of Bush's coalition to resign.
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http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm
 
I'm registered "NPA" but would consider myself Republican if I had to choose. However, I vote the issues, not party lines.

I just finished going through my sample ballot today and I'll be voting all Republican except for 3 instances..and of those 3 all fall into different parties.
 
You sure you wanna stand by that, given the track record over the last 6 years?

There's more to "freedom" than gun rights. Much more.-derek zeanah

yeah, but there is NO freedom without them.
 
What's NPA?

None Per Anal?

That's my political preference, too, but it's hard to find a candidate who really lives up to it.

(Medical joke. Never mind.)
 
Echelon was conceived and orchestrated by Democrats, and it appears to have been more abusive and more abused, with Republicans in Congress, so a divided government didn't help.
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I'll go on record as saying that ECHELON is something I don't understand the beginnings of -- my understanding is that we don't conclusively know how long it's been going on, or who started it, or who expanded its scope. It exists though -- something Clinton's administration admitted.

Now, don't think for a second that I'm a Democrat or a supporter -- I'm registered Republican, but I don't agree with the Republican agenda at all either (though it's nice to be able to vote in primaries). But as much as I loathed Janet Reno's justice department, and as much as I believed Clinton was a slimy SOB, I was never really scared of what my country might become while Clinton was in control. Yeah, I made "what-if" arguments, but I never really believed I might end up seeing a country that far gone -- I just thought appealing to worst-case scenarios might make folks wake up.

Once the Republicans took over, suddenly it seemed whatever the president wanted, the president got. Oftentimes without debate. And what the president seems to want is a huge increase in executive power, without any oversight. Now I'm scared to death for the future of my country, and of those offspring I'm trying to bring into the world.

Anyone who values freedom should be frightened.

As far as Democrat vs Republican goes, I think it's reasonable to assume that a big chunk of the GOP supports the NRA in the same way that a big chunk of self-defined Liberals support the ACLU. And you see the same kind of mindless hatred of the ACLU here as you do of the NRA on a board like the Democratic Underground. Personally I don't think the ACLU or the NRA is an effective defender of rights, but I wish we could get agreement from everyone that professes to care about "freedom" that all rights need to be protected, not just those that we hold dear. And especially those we resent the most -- we're seeing a demonstration right now of what can be done to the rights of everyone by marginalizing one group (accused terrorists, who can apparently be tortured, held without trial, held without charges or legal counsel, and convicted in military courts without seeing the evidence against them and 70% of the population will cheer along and yell for more. I never understood what happened in Nazi Germany, but now I do -- substitute "Juden" with "Terrorist," and talk about "taking our freedoms" and "wanting us dead or under a Caliphate" rather than "protecting our virtuous young women and jobs," and I start to get it. It's bloody depressing, especially now that we're starting to codify in law what can be done to "enemy combatants," when all it takes is a slight change in definition to use these powers against anyone -- same with "alien" illegal combatants, as the Bush Administration has already argued it should be able to unilaterally revoke anyone's citizenship by decree.)

I think the most depressing thing about this election, for me, is that no-one on "either side" (how sad is it that our language makes it appear that there are only two sides on this?) seems to give a **** about what's going on, or what that says about our future.
 
Personally I don't think the ACLU or the NRA is an effective defender of rights
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They might not be ideologically pure, but I think it would be hard to show that they are ineffective defenders of (some) rights. Just ask what the world would be if neither group had ever existed.

I never understood what happened in Nazi Germany, but now I do -- substitute "Juden" with "Terrorist," and talk about "taking our freedoms" and "wanting us dead or under a Caliphate" rather than "protecting our virtuous young women and jobs," and I start to get it.
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How much do you know about the internal workings or history of Nazi Germany?

I know a good deal, and not from textbooks. I've asked these questions, from people who remembered. While I, too, am concerned about our freedoms, I don't see the parallel that you do -- and I take the threat of a Nazi-like regime FAR more seriously than most people I've ever met. Why? Because it's REAL to me, because my parents experienced it firsthand.
 
Vote Republican for the sake of Freedom, Security, and Personal Sovereignty.
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:scrutiny:

I'll be voting for candidates that best reflect my views/morals. It's likely that there will be some dems, some pubs, and some Libertarians in that mix.

But the above statement is indefensible, IMO.
 
I know a good deal, and not from textbooks. I've asked these questions, from people who remembered. While I, too, am concerned about our freedoms, I don't see the parallel that you do -- and I take the threat of a Nazi-like regime FAR more seriously than most people I've ever met. Why? Because it's REAL to me, because my parents experienced it firsthand.
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Don't think I'm arguing "America == Nazi Germany," or that "America will become a Nazi Germany." I'm arguing that there are consequences for a society that allows a segment of its population to be marginalized, as the segment that's affected by the new laws and procedures can grow much more easily to include everyone. This is a much easier way to gain control over the population that trying an overt rights grab up front.

"We don't want your freedoms, but we need to be able to catch the terrorists. Don't you want us to catch the terrorists before they detonate a dirty bomb in your city? Well, the habeous corpus issues we deal with every day are getting in the way....." Looking at what we're seeing makes the justifications given on another continent 70-80 years ago a bit more alarming...
 
Vote Republican for the sake of Freedom, Security, and Personal Sovereignty.
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*falls out of chair, convulsing with laughter*

I certainly didn't vote for any Democrats, but anyone who looks at what the so-called "Republican Revolution" has become cannot draw such a conclusion.

From HIPAA to warrantless wiretapping to "No Child Left Behind" to the "PATRIOT" Act to TSA thuggery to spending so utterly out-of-control that it would make FDR blush, the Republicans can hardly be described as the party of freedom, security and personal sovereignty.
 
Some More Truth

In spite of ECHELON or any spying, tapping, record keeping, censorship, or what-have-you; without our arms we are doomed. We won't need modern communications to gather in the streets with our arms and march to Washington, D.C. to remove any wayward citizens we may have placed in positions of power in our government. Ever heard the old adage; "Look out your window. If a crowd is gathering with their arms, the time has come."? That is the first line of any defense we have. You might have to be the first one out there to get it started. Can't do it without our arms, my friends!

Do yourself and your family a big favor and protect the one right - the ONLY right - that can guarantee you, your family's and fellow man's freedom!

Woody
 
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