Just so we're clear on why we should vote for Democrats

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Is this intended to be a legitimate political argument?

This is what passes for political discourse among the outcome-based
education generation who receive their daily viewpoints via AM radio
--whether ditto-headism or leftist NPR (National Propaganda Radio).

PK, Orange: I'll break it down.

Nooooo, Derek, Nooooo! Don't get sucked in!

When my wife was in medical school, she learned that anal sex among heterosexual couples is pretty widespread -- enough so that it fits the definition of "normal" behavior.

Now wait a second.....I don't know what kind of med school your wife went
to, but I don't recall that one from my post-grad Sex Offender Assessment
training!

100 years from now this is gonna be viewed about like prohibitions on interracial marriage are by most now.

Unless the Four Horsemen get saddled up in the meantime....:evil:

Ugggg --trying not to get sucked into this as well.....

Is there any way we can tie this in with guns on THR.....let me think...ah,
yes, I recall the time one lesbian wanted me to teach her how to shoot, but
her girlfriend said no, saying it would go against their party principles.
 
Now wait a second.....I don't know what kind of med school your wife went to, but I don't recall that one from my post-grad Sex Offender Assessment
training!
Well you'll love this one then -- one isn't "homosexual" if he just engaged in same-sex acts when no members of the opposite sex were available. You have to have a preference when you have a choice. So whatever happened in the Navy or in prison doesn't count. ;)
 
A vote for Democrats, even if you support none of their beliefs, has the potential to change things in a beneficial way. If the Dems take control of the House or Senate, the political momentum of the Neo-Con movement will be stopped cold, and political gridlock will ensue. The Dems and Reps will spend all their time fighting for power, and less time passing bad laws. The founders new that a two party system, where both parties share in power, is less destructive than letting one side have all the power.

I understand the idea, but I also understand that it is fundamentally bogus. I recall similar thoughts and arguments in 1992, followed by shock and outrage over what we (the collective we, not myself as I never fell for it) allowed to happen.

The argument that gridlock will result is utterly false according to the standard THR mantra that all the politicians are pretty much the same. If they are the same, then where will the gridlock come from?

The gridlock argument is also false because the Dems have already promised all sorts of investigations to prove the allegations they've been raising for years (even those allegations already disproven by various commissions and reports). The very manner in which these investigations are performed can destroy careers and lives, notwithstanding the actual guilt or innocence of those under investigation. So, the Reps will have an incentive to play along. After all, their base has (in their mind) abandoned them, so why should they worry about it? The current Dem party is the most left-wing it has been for years and seems successful. Shouldn't the Reps be willing to go along with that in order to protect their careers if the people are giving the Dems this mandate?

Further, with Pelosi in control of the House and no one in firm control of the Senate, gridlock will be counterproductive to the need to pass legislation and get one positioned for the next set of elections. Cooperation is the name of the game, not gridlock.

No, gridlock is the counter boogeyman foisted by those who want change at all costs, even when the change is for the worse. It won't happen the way people are fantasizing about it.
 
I understand the idea, but I also understand that it is fundamentally bogus. I recall similar thoughts and arguments in 1992, followed by shock and outrage over what we (the collective we, not myself as I never fell for it) allowed to happen.

No thats not what happened in 1992. In 1992, the Democrats ended up controlling nearly everything, I believe. This proves my point that too much power in anybody's hands is bad.


The argument that gridlock will result is utterly false according to the standard THR mantra that all the politicians are pretty much the same. If they are the same, then where will the gridlock come from?

Gridlock would come not from political differences, but from their individual desires for more power. They will spend more time fighting over minor details, and end up not passing anything at all.

Maybe gridlock won't work out the way I hope, but 6 years of Republican control certainly hasn't worked out like I had hoped.
 
Gridlock would come not from political differences, but from their individual desires for more power. They will spend more time fighting over minor details, and end up not passing anything at all.

And that's happened when? The minor details are where most of the deals are done. Getting agreement on the major points is where the real fights come into play, and that isn't likely given what the set up is going to be.

Maybe gridlock won't work out the way I hope, but 6 years of Republican control certainly hasn't worked out like I had hoped

Respectfully, going for 100% failure in predictions isn't exactly something to strive for.
 
Decimation for the GOP

A little Decimation in 2006 can be more inspiring for the GOP in 2008 :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_Army)

Decimation (Latin: decimatio) was a form of extreme military discipline used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers. The word decimation is derived from Latin meaning "removal of a tenth."
....
Because the punishment fell by lot, all soldiers in the selected cohort were eligible for execution, regardless of rank or distinction. As a result, the threat of decimation inspired fear and resolve into the Roman Legions. However, because a decimation significantly reduced the troop strength of an army, it is believed that the punishment was rarely used.
 
Regardless of how good you think your dems are they still must work within thier party and cave to thier own beliefs to get things accomplished in a progressive liberal party. So while they might agree on no new restrictions for 2a, thier co-workers believe in many, so even if they make a compromise and find a middle ground it is going to be more restrictions.

The dems are represented by many unions and lobbyists working very much like a socialist labor party that believes by taking from those successful in the american dream and giving to those in the worst neighborhoods and poorest people in the forms of grants, free college for thier kids, and a general trickle up philosophy they can spread the wealth and make a better society. As well as more restrictions on businesses and higher taxes to fund thier trickle up philosophy. The businesses stagnate and because workers have so many rights the jobs just move overseas where the workers don't have those rights. Some jobs can't move overseas like teachers, police, nurses, and other public servants so they are the ones most represented through unions. Basicly government paid people dependent on government wages represented along with whoever helped with campaign money to get dems into power since they tend to have less resources to draw on they have to become more in debt with favors to get there. It is government for the government's sake.

Republicans on the other hand tend to be more for letting corporations do as they wish and get bigger and more powerful. Few restrictions, taking less taxes from all so they have less to spend on programs. A philosophy more along the lines of you end up and enjoy the lifestyle you can manage to reach, period. They tend to be less in debt by the time they come to power because they are more likely to have backing that already agrees with thier points of views. They are wealthy, have friends that are wealthy, and help eachother get contracts and into positions that when thier political career ends they have a nice cushion of favors built up from deciding which contractor gets which job. Sometimes its corrupt but more often its just business. HOWEVER they in general tend to be for less government agencies, requiring less taxes to support and slower increase in governmental power.


So neither side is ideal, both do a poor job of representing most of us, but one is for quick governmental expansion and reducing the rights of the individual in favor of the masses represented through union leaders that partialy represent the members of the union they speak for (dems.) While the other is more in it for thier own benefit but does not tend to be for infringing on the rights of the individual and expanding government power and control, on the contrary they like less oversight and want to keep things the same.

These are stereotypes and of course there are those that do not fit them. Take the Bush expansion of domestic spies and large branches of homeland security to accomplish that, more of a Democrat type of thing than republican. I can only imagine what the dems would have managed to accomplish if in power during 9/11.
But in general the stereotypes fit and while both will eventualy lead to an America we don't recognize I think that happens slower under the republicans and quicker under the Democrats.
I would rather be closer to the frontier times in rights than closer to the European system of rights.

Extreme capitalism with rights or Socialism with a police state, hmm.
 
The argument that gridlock will result is utterly false according to the standard THR mantra that all the politicians are pretty much the same. If they are the same, then where will the gridlock come from?
Calling this argument utterly false is utterly false.

By your alleged mantra, if all politicians are pretty much the same then what is the difference whether we elect Democrats or republicans?

Is that a double negative? :confused:
 
Prepare the ranks, start drawing lots and prepare for decimation!

I don't think a strategy that runs a considerable risk of making Nancy Pelosi the House Majority Leader or Ted Kennedy the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee is one we want to rely on.

The place to complain about the way the party is being run is in the primaries. The reason RINOs get elected is not because they are horrendous traitors to the cause - it is because the people in their district want someone who has those views and if you run a true conservative in that district, he'll lose. After all - if a guy can't win half of his own party's votes, he isn't likely to do well in the general election.

The key to changing all of this is first by changing voter attitude.
 
Calling this argument utterly false is utterly false.

By your alleged mantra, if all politicians are pretty much the same then what is the difference whether we elect Democrats or republicans?

I never said it was mine. I just see a lot of the same people who harp on politicians being the same regardless of political affiliation now claiming that electing one party will cause gridlock. It hasn't worked like that for years, notwithstanding the fondest hopes and dreams of some.
 
The place to complain about the way the party is being run is in the primaries.

Or those dinners with the polticians themselves. However, I keep ending up
with the cheap plates at the back. Sadly, I am only Middle Class despite
actual ownership of my property, but that's all I can afford.

The key to changing all of this is first by changing voter attitude.

If conservatives had a grip on the education controls of this country, I might
agree with you. However, we have something at the federal level called the
Dept of Education which has done a very good job of turning out consumers rather
than citizens.
 
I think having a Speaker Pelosi would be a good thing.

Yes, she is a socialist. Yes, she would try to do bad things.

Yes, she would make the ordinary voter regurgitate.

Yes, she would make the republicans see what will happen if they don't return to their conservative roots.

Yes, it would make more interesting strings on THR.

I don't know how come the mods will leave these strings open if the title says "republican" or "Democrat" but clamps them all that say "libertarian"

Is THR becoming like the managed media?
 
I don't know how come the mods will leave these strings open if the title says "republican" or "Democrat" but clamps them all that say "libertarian"

Yes, we're just a big bunch of meanies... I don't know how you can handle the unbearable suffering.

:rolleyes:
 
I am mostly concerened over control of all the various congressional committees. NO WAY I want to see these in the hands of the hard line wack job Democrats that would control them given a majority switch.

In truth, the way this country's headed has lost me a lot of sleep over the past few years.

It seems nobody wants higher taxes or bigger government, but EVERYBODY wants to be first in line for the next freebie that the government hands out.

The way we're handling it sure isn't the best, but I honestly don't have any solutions that are realistic either.
 
TBL said:
If conservatives had a grip on the education controls of this country, I might agree with you.

There are a bazillion organizations out there involved in kids' lives that give you a chance to be a role model. Boy Scouts, Little League, etc. Not to mention that parents easily have more influence over their children than any school ever will. If children aren't learning critical thinking skills, it isn't government's fault.

cropcirclewalker said:
Is THR becoming like the managed media?

Why? Are you having trouble finding threads about libertarianism or election year politics on THR? Has that discussion been so thoroughly stifled you felt the need to cry out at the injustice? Or did you just feel a burning need to point out that you don't agree with 100% of the decisions made by the volunteers who try to run the place?
 
There are a bazillion organizations out there involved in kids' lives that give you a chance to be a role model. ... If children aren't learning critical thinking skills, it isn't government's fault.

Being a role model and controlling information are two different things.
Standards are set from above and the local school board has far less
control over the information that is actually given out than what it did
in the past.

After all, where do you think the kids are learning the "guns are bad" mantra, hmmm?
 
Wrong is wrong. Dem or Rep. Just because somebody else did something wrong does not give you carte blanche.

:eek: So I'm supposed to put a gun to my head and kill myself (push the "D" button) because somebody lied to me? :eek: :scrutiny:
 
Major forgotten point...If the Dems win the Senate, what type judges do you think would be appointed to the supreme court. Look at the record. If you like the Dems historical appointments, and those they've blocked, you can forget about the second amendment. They'll be able to legislate fromt he bench and I don't really think you'll like what you get. Think about it!:fire:
 
If you like the Dems historical appointments, and those they've blocked, you can forget about the second amendment.

Did you know that Clarence Thomas, the most conservative member of the Supreme Court, was confirmed by a Democrat controlled Senate? He is a strict constructionist, and believer in the Second Amendment.

The argument that we need Republicans in charge of the Senate so we can get conservative judges is not consistent with what has happened in the past. Did you know that all but two Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans?
 
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So I'm supposed to put a gun to my head and kill myself (push the "D" button) because somebody lied to me?

At this point, I'm afraid that who you vote for matters very little. I think that no matter who you vote for, there's a very good chance your vote will not be counted. I also think that even if it is, and your candidate wins, there's a very good chance he'll be just as corrupt as the one you're voting against.

Very few politicians today give a damn about the Constitution. Even fewer give a damn about their constituents. If voting them out for the next two years is the only way to tell them how dissatisfied you are with their work records, then so be it. Just like any other worker you hire. If you're not happy with the job he's doing, fire him, and give the next man a try.
 
Did you know that Clarence Thomas, the most conservative member of the Supreme Court, was confirmed by a Democrat controlled Senate? He is a strict constructionist, and believer in the Second Amendment.

The argument that we need Republicans in charge of the Senate so we can get conservative judges is not consistent with what has happened in the past. Did you know that all but two Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans?

The days of Presidents getting their picks appointed as long as they are qualified are coming to a close.
I don't kid myself for a minute that a Thomas type appointment would make it through a Reid led Senate for a minute.
That is delusional.
 
Did you know that Clarence Thomas, the most conservative member of the Supreme Court, was confirmed by a Democrat controlled Senate? He is a strict constructionist, and believer in the Second Amendment.

He certainly got a smooth ride, didn't he? I think that many Democrat Senators were embarrased by the amateur smear job done on him and voted for him just to show that they aren't complete idiots.

Robert Bork was denied a seat on the court, and neither of George Bush's nominations would be seated on the court today if the Ds had been in charge of the Senate. Even in these recent cases, the Democrats have staged strong opposition to anyone who believes that the Constitution means what it says, and who doesn't see a "right" in it to murder your babies in the womb.

Face it, Democrats have become virulently rabid in their hatred of this country and of it's Constitution.
 
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