stonewall34
Member
Reply to Joab and 2nd Amendment
Actually the proper response to this idea that Americans exterminated certain groups of people is both yes and no. To be certain the Europeans entered North America with the idea that the land was theirs for the taking. The brutalities inflicted on the native populations were in most ways inexcusable. But to view the native peoples as totally innocent in also naive. Both sides inflicted atrocities on each other and both sides viewed the other as somewhat subhuman and worthy of extinction. The biggest factor in the radical decline of native populations was generally the onset of disease brought in by the European peoples. These diseases were taken as a matter of course by the Europeans and took the natives by surprise. Another contributing factor to the "defeat" of the natives was the fact that they were not politically united. The Europeans looked upon them as one homogonous group and would sign a treaty and be very confused when most of the native groups refused to abide by the treaty.
Slavery was very common throughout history and was condemned by many groups as far back as the first century. The use of slavery by the Americans was no better or worse than the use of slavery by the English in the sugar islands or by the Portuguese in Brazil. What was truly unique about American slaver was the simple fact that it was racially based and not based upon debt or defeat in war. The single largest supplier of slaves for the English slave trade was the African kingdoms that existed in the central portion of Africa. These groups got their slaves through either conquest or by imprisonment for debt, or through punishment for crimes committed.
In conclusion, history is best viewed by attempting to see the big picture instead of focusing on what you think you believe. It seems to me best to read the facts and then to decide how you will handle them. As for me I refuse to be ashamed of the fact that my ancestors helped to for a lack of a better term "conquer" this continent. I also am very proud of my Native American ancestry (Choctaw) and I am saddened by the fact that the Trail of Tears was inflicted on innocent people (precisely why I detest Andrew Jackson). As to slavery, it is hard to understand any human being owning another but you have to look at 18th and 19th Century history through the eyes of their beliefs not ours. And realize that many of the founders were radically anti-slavery (Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin). The faults of their lives in no way diminish what they did in getting the ball rolling. These men and women were able to establish a nation founded on the principles of freedom and equality before the law. This very fact enabled all the many freedoms we enjoy to be put into place even though it took in many ways much too long to achieve true freedom. This is precisely the reason that I feel that America is in trouble because we believe that freedom means everyone having everything the same which is not only practically impossible but also theoretically impossible.
That all being said I believe that there is room for all points of view concerning our history and our freedoms. Just remember, lets always go back to the original documents to actually interpret our freedoms not use some judicial precedent to rely on.
Some good books to read:
Keepers of the Game; Calvin Martin Indians and the environment
Many Thousands Gone; Ira Berlin; slavery in the first 200 years of North American settlement.
American Colonies; Alan Taylor; controversial book that explains the destructive nature of European colonization.
Actually the proper response to this idea that Americans exterminated certain groups of people is both yes and no. To be certain the Europeans entered North America with the idea that the land was theirs for the taking. The brutalities inflicted on the native populations were in most ways inexcusable. But to view the native peoples as totally innocent in also naive. Both sides inflicted atrocities on each other and both sides viewed the other as somewhat subhuman and worthy of extinction. The biggest factor in the radical decline of native populations was generally the onset of disease brought in by the European peoples. These diseases were taken as a matter of course by the Europeans and took the natives by surprise. Another contributing factor to the "defeat" of the natives was the fact that they were not politically united. The Europeans looked upon them as one homogonous group and would sign a treaty and be very confused when most of the native groups refused to abide by the treaty.
Slavery was very common throughout history and was condemned by many groups as far back as the first century. The use of slavery by the Americans was no better or worse than the use of slavery by the English in the sugar islands or by the Portuguese in Brazil. What was truly unique about American slaver was the simple fact that it was racially based and not based upon debt or defeat in war. The single largest supplier of slaves for the English slave trade was the African kingdoms that existed in the central portion of Africa. These groups got their slaves through either conquest or by imprisonment for debt, or through punishment for crimes committed.
In conclusion, history is best viewed by attempting to see the big picture instead of focusing on what you think you believe. It seems to me best to read the facts and then to decide how you will handle them. As for me I refuse to be ashamed of the fact that my ancestors helped to for a lack of a better term "conquer" this continent. I also am very proud of my Native American ancestry (Choctaw) and I am saddened by the fact that the Trail of Tears was inflicted on innocent people (precisely why I detest Andrew Jackson). As to slavery, it is hard to understand any human being owning another but you have to look at 18th and 19th Century history through the eyes of their beliefs not ours. And realize that many of the founders were radically anti-slavery (Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin). The faults of their lives in no way diminish what they did in getting the ball rolling. These men and women were able to establish a nation founded on the principles of freedom and equality before the law. This very fact enabled all the many freedoms we enjoy to be put into place even though it took in many ways much too long to achieve true freedom. This is precisely the reason that I feel that America is in trouble because we believe that freedom means everyone having everything the same which is not only practically impossible but also theoretically impossible.
That all being said I believe that there is room for all points of view concerning our history and our freedoms. Just remember, lets always go back to the original documents to actually interpret our freedoms not use some judicial precedent to rely on.
Some good books to read:
Keepers of the Game; Calvin Martin Indians and the environment
Many Thousands Gone; Ira Berlin; slavery in the first 200 years of North American settlement.
American Colonies; Alan Taylor; controversial book that explains the destructive nature of European colonization.
