please critique first 9mm round

[GLOOB]

I don't think a properly done taper crimp does much against setback, personally. When done properly, it will do barely more than remove the flare. If you wanted to actually crimp precisely enough to just prevent setback without destroying your accuracy, you'd need to trim all your brass. I'd go back to jacketed, if that were necessary!

For an autoloading rifle, a good roll crimp into the groove is near essential for cast bullets, IMO. Most cast rifle bullets are way shorter and more blunt than jacketed, so they can hang up, easiily. Also, a rifle neck is expanded all the way through; the base of the bullet may even be sitting at or below the shoulder. So a cast rifle bullet that starts to setback has nothing to stop it. I've had more than a few cast rifle bullets setback all the way into the case, rolling around with the powder, before I wised up.

For straight wall pistol ammo that is sized properly, the case becomes wasp-waisted/coke-bottled. The case, itself, does a pretty good job of preventing, or at least limiting, setback. And the bullet shape is more or less the same as for jacketed alternatives. I suppose the worst case would be a bottle neck semiauto pistol case with a cast bullet, say 357 SIG. What do you do with that?

Of my semiauto pistol rounds, I only crimp my 45ACP. That's because my gun's chamber demands it. The rest don't get any crimp.

 

[blarby]

Crimping cases when using lead bullets is not really required.

HALT !

ArchAngel nailed this one, I'll just put in my 2 cents that he's right.

One thing I noted, OP- is that in the photo provided, you are shaving lead during your seating step.

A little wider flare during your belling step will ensure that your bullets aren't deformed during the seating step- and the brass can be bent right back into shape using your crimp step..... which is another good use for the crimping step.

About the only time I can think of that I don't use a crimp is in 44, using .429 jacketed bullets ... a tip I picked up from gamestalker. But, I'm not expanding the case significantly either- and the neck tension is TIGHT.

 

[GLOOB]

Since taper crimp is applied to the outside of the case, the depth of the crimp is a factor of both brass length and brass thickness. If you're relying on a taper crimp to prevent setback, good luck with that and your pile of thousands of mixed 9mm cases.

OTOH, because the crimp is applied to the outside of the case, a taper crimp is an excellent tool to ensure proper fit/feeding into the chamber. This is most all what it's good for, IMO.

About the only time I can think of that I don't use a crimp is in 44, using .429 jacketed bullets ... a tip I picked up from gamestalker. But, I'm not expanding the case significantly either- and the neck tension is TIGHT.

Well, ideally, you will always flare and expand just enough to do the job. And you should always get "TIGHT" neck tension. There's actually a max neck tension you can get with any particular piece of brass. Add any "more" and the bullet might be harder to seat, but the end tension will be the same. Cuz the brass will undergo plastic deformation to make up the difference of where the limit of elastic deformation is maxed out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I never said a taper crimp was the only step preventing setback and mentioned it alone because that's what we were talking about. I thought there was no need to mention proper neck tension because I thought everyone already knew that. Of course proper neck tension is necessary but so are all the other steps too.

 

[balderclev]

As far as seating primers, I manually seat them and just run my finger over them. I can feel if one is not seated deep enough.

 

[-Gadsden-]

headed to the range tomorrow.

I cooked up a batch of 50 this evening. 4.4-4.5 grains of Unique at about 1.090-1.010 OAL. Spent a good amount of time checking, rechecking and remeasuring everything I did, so I'm pretty confident in how to use the scale and powder measure now.

These seated fine in my Sig's barrel, so I'm looking forward to having some fun after work!

Now to apply a light crimp to these bad boys

 

[ArchAngelCD]

From the picture it doesn't look like you removed the flare from the case mouths. Did you crimp at all? Also, I highly doubt you will be able to notice the difference between a 4.4gr load and a 4.5gr load. I usually make .2gr jumps with handgun ammo but I'm more concerned about the crimp. Did you check if those rounds will "plunk" into your barrel?

 

[-Gadsden-]

those are uncrimped at that stage, but I crimped them after I posted the picture. I listed 4.4-4.5 because that was the amount the measure was throwing.

 

[Rule3]

headed to the range tomorrow.

I cooked up a batch of 50 this evening. 4.4-4.5 grains of Unique at about 1.090-1.010 OAL. Spent a good amount of time checking, rechecking and remeasuring everything I did, so I'm pretty confident in how to use the scale and powder measure now.

These seated fine in my Sig's barrel, so I'm looking forward to having some fun after work!

Now to apply a light crimp to these bad boys

You stated they seated or dropped in the barrel fine, did they also fall out when you turned the barrel over?? A lot of times the round will not seat properly if the flair is not removed or a light taper crimp. It makes the brass to wide or fat at the mouth.

I can not tell from the picture but does the bullet have a driving band which ends right before the curve (ogive)of the round nose?
Generally if you seat to just leave a hair or fingernail with of the driving band you are good as to seating

I have to say again, that is great to see you taking so much time, research and making sure things are correct. So often folks just want to wam bam, load something without understanding all the little things.

 

[Potatohead]

is crimping necessary for all straight walled cartridges?

 

[Potatohead]

off topic i know but didnt think that question deserved its own thread ya know?

 

[-Gadsden-]

Thanks Rule3! The finished rounds dropped in and out without a hiccup. The bullet was seated with the driving band just a hair below the case mouth line, or maybe dead even in some cases. I think they worked nicely.

Had a good time at the range today after I calmed down and took my time.

4.0, like everyone predicted, was not enough charge and stovepiped.

4.25 was barely enough to cycle the action, but it was a weak ejection and at least one of the casings managed to wedge itself between my face and my glasses. That was pretty hot!

4.4-4.5 were fine and cycled the action as normal. However, they were still a bit more smokey than I'd like. I assume moving up a few tenths will cut down on the smoke a bit?

Unfortunately I'm not a very good shot, so the good thing is I can get more practice in now that the ammo is so much cheaper. I have STRONG tendency to group in a straight line on the left hand side of the bullseye. If I consciously bias myself a bit to the right, it is usually right on target. Not sure if that's ideal, but that's what's working so far!

the attached is the 2nd target I shot at 5 yards. I'm not going to show the 1st one because I have at least some dignity

 

[Springfield0612]

Let me explain.

Please allow me to explain as I did not do so in the above post. As I was assuming most people were familiar with the Lee dies and the proper function and useage, I was attemping to explain to the OP that he does not need to re-crimp cases that are all ready crimped if his dies are setup correctly.

I was attempting to articulate that the Bullet seating/CRIMP die all ready applies enough crimp that additional crimping is not really needed.
The Lee Bullet seating/Crimp die applies a crimp to the case. Here is the verbage from the die instructions, "If a crimp is desired,
screw the die in slightly and test until the proper crimp is formed.
Cases must be trimmed to the same length to provide a uniform crimp.
Excessive crimp causes the bullet seater to deform soft nose bullets."

Now here is the verbage from the Lee Factory Crimp Die: Screw the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in, until it just
touches the shell holder and back out the adjusting screw.
With the loaded round in the die, turn the adjusting screw
in until you can feel it just touch the case mouth. Then
move the cartridge out of the die slightly and screw the
adjusting screw in 1/2 turn for a light crimp and one full
turn for a heavy crimp. You can adjust for even greater
crimp and never have to worry about buckling the case
as with conventional crimpers. The case is sized as it
enters the die and again as it is pulled out of the die. This
assures you every case will freely chamber in any standard
gun. Don’t expect the carbide sizer to touch every
case. It is a fail safe tool for the occasional bad round that
could ruin your day.