My Appleseed Experience: What It Is and Is Not
joe_kidd said:
I've been reading a lot about these "Appleseed shoots" - can someone please explain these to me? As in, what is the format of the shoot? Are they an individual or team-based experience? How is it scored? What type of firearms are used?
I wrote up an AAR in the following thread:
Rifle Marksmanship Training: Appleseed 10-11NOV2007, Davilla, TX AAR
I give a general overview of what occurred and what I thought of it.
FWIW:
1. I am not a member of RWVA and not an Appleseed instructor.
2. I have been a firearms user all my life
3. I have had training in the past, courtesy of Uncle Sam
RPCVYemen said:
This thread depresses me. I had thought that the idea of Appleseeds was battle rifle of nearly any vintage. If the weapon of choice is a 10/22, that makes it a whole lot less interesting to me. Not knocking it, but a 22 just doesn't seem to be much of a battle rifle to me.
I guess I won't be heading out to one with my K-31 after all.
You are operating under a misconception. If you want to shoot your K31, bring your K31 and requisite accessories to shoot long strings of fire under time pressure in the various shooting positions.
I was torn between
my K31 and my Swede M96/38. I eventually ran with the Swede for several reasons I can detail later, if you like.
Th reason that many reference a modded Ruger 10/22 is due to the nature of the shoot:
1. Most shooting done at 25m at reduced-size targets to maximize trigger-time, not hoof-time.
2. Sucking up centerfire recoil and muzzle blast can be debilitating to those not accustomed to such over several hours' time.
3. Cost of a modded Ruger 10/22 is less than the centerfire ammo expended at an Appleseed over the weekend.
I bow to no man in my appreciation of battle rifles and I have material evidence to back my words up. Despite that, if you read my AAR (posted above) you will (perhaps) understand why the Ruger 10/22 is likely more appropriate for the majority of shooters at an Appleseed.
Niner said:
I thought at first it was just a bunch of guys wanting to be minutemen at $70 a crack and drawn in by a group that profits on that idea. Guy I know who is an expert in a particular weapons history, who is also in the real military, and just back from Iraq for the third time, thinks this is one of those groups that ultimately wants to run around in the woods on weekends and pretend it is saving America by doing so.
I don't know what this is actually, but I think my friend may be closer to right than I thought to start with.
Does the Highroad promote this... judging by the many posts promotiing events?
"It ain't what you don't know that is most harmful, it is what you know that ain't so..."
Your buddy, despite his service, speaks in ignorance on this topic. I suggest you seek out better data before drawing your conclusions.
I would urge to your read my AAR on THR...no, read the one I posted at the RWVA website that is commented upon by RWVA members and Appleseed instructors. Then click the links I have provided at the bottom of
that AAR.
bill in IN said:
My two thoughts on the subject-
1. The guy who wrote the book "The Art of the Rifle", Col. Cooper, would probably disparage the emphasis on time as spray and pray.
2. As this is purportedly connected with the Revolutionary War and those riflemen I find it a little confusing as the riflemen gave up speed (the musket being the high rate of fire armament of the time) for accuracy, a tactic that obviously worked. To take a modern day scenario and put the emphasis elsewhere might not be wise as when dealing with most civilians the ammunition supply is not infinite, making every shot count might be the better goal.
1. I own that particular work of Cooper's and hold it in high regard. I also have some others of his. The next time you crack them open, do pay attention to what he writes on practical marksmanship and the factor of time.
IOW, what Appleseeds teach is in close accord to what Cooper wrote and practiced. The basic are the basics, no matter who is the instructor.
2. This is a misunderstanding of what is taught at an Appleseed. Practical marksmanship is not a bench rest competition. Time is very much a factor and an added stressor. Part of the training is learning how to deal with time pressure and still make hits.
FWIW, almost every marksmanship qualification I had in Uncle Sam's service had a time component.
LINKS:
Rifle Marksmanship Training: Appleseed 10-11NOV2007, Davilla, TX AAR
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=315994&highlight
AAR I did at RWVA forum, including responses
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=1247.0
Ruger 10/22 "Liberty Training Rifle"
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=32.0