Please explain the allure of the 1911

[harmon rabb]

People who really know guns, and rely on them for work love them..... then I shoot with them and their $1,500.00 gun jams. I just don't get the love for them.

I was at the range one day, and next to me was a guy with a beautiful new kimber 1911 that was jamming every 3-4 rounds. He blamed the ammo.

I asked if I could try some of his bad ammo in my xd. Loaded it up, and proceeded to empty a mag flawlessly.

I do love my 1911, but I always chuckle when guys talk about 1911 reliability. Yeah, reliable if made to the specs of the original gi model. The **** you get nowadays, tightened up so it shoots better? Not nearly as reliable.

 

[oldfool]

nothin' wrong with the XD, harmon, real popular for very good reasons
when it's been in continuous production for 100 years, it may well have legendary allure as well
playin' catchup always was a rough road
just saying there are three really good reasons why the 1911 has allure; didn't say all others were lacking

PS
and agree re: jammomatics, see post #25
OP was not yet another a "best" thread, just "what's the allure ?"
do feel sorry for OP, for including cocked-n-locked in topic, though... we all know where this is going

 

[harmon rabb]

nothin' wrong with the XD, harmon, real popular for very good reasons
when it's been in continuous production for 100 years, it may well have legendary allure as well
playin' catchup always was a rough road
just saying there are three really good reasons why the 1911 has allure; didn't say all others were lacking

PS
and agree re: jammomatics, see post #25

I don't see the xd or glock ever having the allure of the 1911. They're ugly, they're plastic, and nobody's grandfather carried one in ww2. I just think that, as a self defense weapon, they're a better choice.

Part of the allure of the 1911 for me is how pretty some of them are. I truly wish I hadn't read so many bad things about kimber, because some of their models are absolutely gorgeous works of art. I don't think I've seen any gun that evokes the same kind of lust in me.

 

[BADUNAME37]

The "allure" of the 1911 is why I have a Sig and love it.

 

[Guillermo]

there are a lot of great handguns out there

the 1911 is among them.

as several people have pointed out, many guns, perhaps several that you own, are cocked & locked but the hammer is hidden.

 

[bernie]

I can only tell you why I like and carry one, and many of these have been discussed already.

1. It is steel. It has heft (which does not mean it is heavy, I do not walk around with my pants around my knees because of the weight). The weight helps it control recoil to some extent. Also, in the unlikely event I do need to strike someone with the weapon, they will know that they have been struck.

2. Mine is reliable. It is as reliable as a brick. It has not failed me. Ever.

3. It shoots a big bullet that has been stopping bad guys reliably for around 100 years. I want a bullet, that if it does not expand because the hollow point gets plugged with material, will still whack a bad guy with some authority. When I need to shoot someone, I want a cartridge that will allow this bad guy to know that he has been shot.

4. It is slim enough to conceal easily, yet is still a large, full size combat-type handgun that I can carry openly on the farm and it will do the job at either place. This way, I just need one carry sidearm, not two.

5. The 1911 fits my hand and I shoot it well.

6. The trigger is good like no other handgun that I have ever shot on a regular basis.

7. It can be easily customized to the way I like it. For example, Novak sights and a straight mainspring housing with a lanyard loop. I am a throwback and like lanyards when working outside. Especially when around the water.

8. I have never accidentally discharged one that had the safety engaged.

All of this is not to say there are not equally good sidearms out there, many that cost less. But hey, a Yugo was cheap too, and I never wanted one. Yes, I know that other handguns work, (my Glock, XD, Beretta, etc. is better), my wife carries a Beretta 92 because it works for her.

I can some it all up with a little anecdote. A friend of mine asked to borrow a handgun so he could qualify for his concealed handgun license. In AR, if you qualify with a revolver, for some reason, the license is restricted so that you can only carry a revolver. He wanted an unrestricted license. After shooting it that day, he told me he did great with it and loved it. He really impressed the instructor and this guy is not a regular "shooter", per se.

However, after raving about it, he decided to buy a Glock. He thought since it was newer, it had to be better. He loved my gun, but went another way. Does that make him wrong? Of course not.

I am a fan of the 1911, does that make me wrong?

 

[blo0dyhatchet]

Nothing feels better in my hands than a 1911. People talk about the weight and mag capacity. Its really not much heavier than my XD. As far as round capacity, most .45acp polymer pistols hold 12 rounds. With the 1911, and a 8 round magazine, I have 9 rounds ready to go. The mags are so thin, its easier to carry an extra magazine. So off the bat, I'm down only 3 rounds, which, if you have a problem that 9 .45's can't solve......reload!

 

[Ala Dan]

3 Words

John Moses Browning

 

[JTQ]

bushmaster1313 wrote,

I am familiar with the DA/SA SIG 226 and HK USP in .40 S&W, but I am a bit spooked by cocked and locked.

There is no safety on that DA/SA SIG 226. Any obstruction that gets inside the trigger guard can cause the pistol to fire. Does that spook you? The 1911 has a thumb safety and grip safety to prevent against that possibility.

I have a 1911 and a DA/SA S&W 4506. Since I always operate the 1911 from Condition 1, the safety is always a part of the operation and it is automatic either disengaging it on the draw or engaging it before reholstering.

I normally carry the 4506 with a round chambered and the safety off (as I would assume most others do, and essentially like the Sig). The big safety issue with this pistol is remembering to decock the hammer before rehosltering since you use it less often than the safety on the 1911. It is an action that requires deliberate thought rather than automatically engaging the safety like the 1911.

 

[HexHead]

An extra step. I'd rather just draw my glock.



I have always wondered this too. Is the trigger/accuracy really that good? People who really know guns, and rely on them for work love them..... then I shoot with them and their $1,500.00 gun jams. I just don't get the love for them.

There are plenty of guns that shoot .45. If you want to shoot that caliber. They only hold 8ish rounds in the mag. You have to carry them cocked and locked, which is less than ideal, they are heavy and they are unreliable. I don't get it either, but I feel like I'm missing something.

It's all how you train. When I shoot my Glock, my thumb still sweeps down where a safety would be. The safety comes off as the pistol is clearing the holster. No extra step.

If their $1500 1911 is jamming, they haven't shot it enough. 1911's at that price point are built tight for accuracy, but don't get the hand fitting and test firing a Wilson, Nighthawk etc get for $1000+ more. So, they need to be "broken in". My roughly $900 Colt has been every bit as reliable as my Glock.

One man's "less than ideal" is another man's SOP. I've been carrying cocked & locked since my Browning HP days, to my 1911s to even my Colt Mustang in my pocket. I don't even give it a second thought.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

A DA/SA system is not foolproof either. You can forget to decock a SIG after shooting, leaving you with a cocked hammer, light trigger pull and no safety. But if you are prone to such things, the thumb safety of a 1911 will present problems for you as well and you would be better off with a DAO. Whatever system you choose, you must train with.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Great Posts!
Thank you to all.

 

[jackpinesavages]

I recently bought an STI TargetMaster through a local Dealer who works through Dawson Precision. My first 1911, single stack, long-slide .45, with a FO Dawson front fiber optic sight. This is a 6" bull barrel with a different sort of recoil system in it. It feels to have the weight of a large .44 Mag revolver but has the recoil of a .38.

In short, the allure is a dramatic difference from the plastic pistols. Don't get me wrong; I love the Glocks and new M&Ps and FNPs! It's the difference you feel in a motorcycle, guitar, or a new woman when you rack the long-slide on an STI. It's like glass and shoots as such. Anybody got a cigarette?

 

[jon86]

1911 cocked and locked is far more "safe" to carry than a Glock or M&P with one in the tube.

Ok, I am having trouble understanding this one. Can anyone explain?

 

[LibertySympathizer]

My beef with the 1911 is that neither of the two specimens I owned were reliable. This is not an indictment of the original design and engineering, but of so many makers building them to slightly different specs and variable quality control.

THIS is the biggest screwup I can think of.

Why the heck would so many manufacturer's trade reliability for some accuracy at a distance that only a select few would even attempt is beyond me.

I can understand maybe offering a specific model for those people that are such good shots that every micro inch counts, but to make all the models that everyday Joe's buy that way to me is just stupidity.

For a very high percentage, the shooter is going to be the limiting factor when it comes to accuracy, and not the pistol.

Sorry, irks me that the market offerings tend to favor accuracy over reliability.

 

[verdun59]

And the beat go on ...... in every one of these never ending 1911 posts you get the 100 year old faction, the old Harley " if you have to ask you wouldn't understand ", the comparison to Harleys ( as if someone would want to defend their life or family with a gun comparable to a Harley), the biggest and best bullet ever invented, John Moses Browning , all other guns are crap, you are the village idiot if you own a "tupperware gun" because real men for a 100 years have owned 1911s, Grandaddy, WWI, WWII and possibly WWIII have used or will use or wish to use 1911s...etc.. etc...etc.. Maybe there should be a sticky devoted to the 1911 where everyone who has any question about them can go read and feel warm and fuzzy because they own a part of history and the future.....

Rant over....I feel better.

 

[JTQ]

Question from jon86,

Quote:
1911 cocked and locked is far more "safe" to carry than a Glock or M&P with one in the tube.
Ok, I am having trouble understanding this one. Can anyone explain?

You drop your Glock (M&P is available with a thumb safety so this may not be applicable) (maybe even down your sweatpants while at a bar) and grab for it (or something in your pants catches on the trigger). During your grab, your finger gets on the trigger and pulls. Bang. If you had a 1911 with a grip and thumb safety all you would have to worry about is 40 oz of steel smacking something on the way down or eventually landing on your foot. No bang.

or

You are reholstering your Glock and the trigger catches on something (thumb strap, elastic draw cord on your jacket, your finger is in the way, etc). Bang. Again with the grip and thumb safety of the 1911 you don't shoot yourself here either.

or

You are the victim of a "gun grab" and the bad guy grabs your Glock and shoots you. If you had a 1911, chances are the bad guy may not be smart (OK, aware is probably a better word) enough to quickly get the pistol into action giving you enough time to get it back or put enough distance between you and the bad guy to save your life.

The Glock safety works as long as you don't pull the trigger, either on purpose or accidentally. My revolver has a similar safety except that the trigger pull is about twice as heavy and I can see the hammer coming back when the trigger is pulled.

The Glock is certainly lighter, has more capacity, is easier to disassemble, manufacture, and it is pretty much impervious to rust. You could argue (and convince me) it is easier to shoot, some may be more accurate and reliable, but you can't convince me that a Glock is safer than a 1911.

 

[jon86]

Alright, the above post makes sense, especially talking about dropping the gun and reholstering.

 

[wyk]

Shot a Kimber 1911 before... never had any problems with it. Emptied 3 mags at the target flawlessly. Very comfortable to shoot...as for reliability I cannot say for sure because I did not own that gun...borrowed it from my friend while we went shooting together...but I never heard him mention any problems with it.

 

[BlayGlock]

The 1911 is one of the easiest guns to shoot accuratley under stress, which is one of the reasons that it is still around despite some of its percieved shortcomings. They also fit almost everyones hand very well.

 

[CDW4ME]

On another THR thread I posted how I prefer the Glock or XD to a 1911.

However, I would rather have a 1911 Officers, CDP compact, or other 5'' height model 1911 over any DA/SA pistol like a Sig 226, Beretta 92 or S&W 5906 ect.... I do not like the DA/SA transition.

I want a consistent trigger whether it's "safe action" or single action.

The 1911 offers a consistent trigger, has a grip that fits most peoples hand, and launches a "big" bullet; it's also thin & flat which makes it fairly easy to conceal.

If I was going to carry a 1911 style pistol it would have a lightweight Officers frame (5'' overall height) and preferably a 4'' or Commander length barrel / slide. I had a Kimber CDP that was exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Fremmer]

The 1911 sits nice and low in the hand, which helps it point very naturally and seems to soften up the recoil. The single-action trigger helps with accuracy. You can mix and match parts to make the gun the way you want it. And it is a tough lookin' gun!

 

[oldfool]

well, I don't generally get into the 1911 vs Glock safety wars big time
but you could search out that thread about the cop who visited the "white throne stall" and decided to hang his Glock on the door hook

no matter which side you are on, now that's FUNNY
(nobody got hurt or dead)

 

[DustyVermonter]

Quote: "I don't usually get into the whole 1911 Vs. Glocks thing"
I did not think that the OP was initiating a 1911 Vs. Glock war, and even if he was I would be the first to try and explain why it is unwise to compare the two. They are two completely different species, but both have their uses and are great defensive weapons. I am not on neither side of the fence on this one, as I love both the Glock and the 1911, but to compare the two and say one is better than the other is ludacris. The only way I think the two compare is that of both of their original designers. John Browning was given a set of specific requirements for a new pistol and with that there was a team of engineers to help him fulfil what was required of him to create that new pistol, as was Gaston Glock, and they both created absolutely marvelous works of art that were rugged, reliable, and far exceeded the expectations of the people that presented them with the job at hand. They are pistols that have stood the test of time and have a tremendous following, they are both pistols that will and have been copied 100's of times over, and I believe both pistols will be used to kill people 100yrs from now. To squabble about about who's taste's better, his apple or your orange, is stupid. I don't think anybody's collection would be complete without a 1911 or a Glock. In my opinion John M. Browning and Gaston Glock are both pioneers, from a different generation, that were given a job and in the process made history, and set the standards for reliable firearms.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I'll point out one thing here that I've seen over the years. 1911's (or SA triggers in general) are much easier to shoot well than Glock triggers.

On several occasions I've actually challenged Glock shooters to compete with themselves using their Glock and my 1911. I simply had them shoot a group with their Glock, then after dry firing a few times, shoot a group with my 1911. On each occasion they shot better groups with the 1911.

I'm not arguing that Glocks can't be accurate, just that it's much more difficult to wring that accuracy out of such a trigger.