Please help CCW effort in Wisconsin

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Monkeyleg

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With two Democrats having sold us out on the CCW veto override vote on January 31st, it's even more important that we help send Governor Jim Doyle packing.

To that end, we need to raise tens of thousands of dollars for our political action committee, the WCCM.

Even if you're not from Wisconsin, you can help by making a contribution of even $10. The maximum contribution is $1000.

If you're willing to take this step, please go to our website here.

Contributions can be sent by mail, or via PayPal.

Thanks,
Dick
 
Leaving?

Dick,

I'm really sorry to get to the point that I'm at. Heaven knows, the last thing we need is more states like California, Illinois, and New Jersey. But after a while, you have to ask yourself when to cut your losses and get out while the getting is (somewhat) good.

Maybe part of the problem is that I wasn't born here. That I don't like cold. That I sure as heck don't like the socialist elite and the traitor governor. But how long is this worth fighting? The majority of people in Wisconsin that use guns, the hunters, do not seem to give much thought to what the Constitution of this state and country have to say, and their lack of support is hurting badly. I don't want this to be misread though; I don't blame them for everything, and I want us to win what is right. In my case, that's Vermont/Alaska-style laws, but I'm realist enough to recognize that it takes some time to bend the law that far. The people in California, though, want what's right too - and we see how far they're getting, down to arguing about what "features" on their not-yet built rifles are even legal. The mindset is against them like it's against us here, and I don't know that any amount of money can buy us the support we need, not that it should even HAVE to be bought.

I'll further grant that the time for civil disobedience is most certainly at hand. The problem is that I don't want to be one of those who gets an example made of them if I lose - I could end up in jail, as I certainly can't afford a lawyer. Moreover, I have little belief in the the will of a public defender to try their hardest to save me from the system. I get fined a hefty chunk of change, or go to jail? And for what, in the end, when nothing gets changed?

I've just read over and revised the first part of this post, and I hate it. I hate that I'm reduced to speaking as if defeat is already sure and decided upon. Maybe I'm just too down after another loss in the legislature, but I have the advantage of being young, in school, and with the opportunity to go somewhere that I feel what is right is upheld when I'm done with my education. I don't want to be reduced to dirty politics, backstabbing, bribes and abuse of power that I see play out so prevalently in our state. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, and it will be that way everywhere. Maybe I should just let myself sink into it, and fight the dirtiest, nastiest fight that I can - playing with the attitude that all's fair in war.

I hope that I don't get ripped to shreds too badly now. Maybe (I have too many "maybe" statements in this post) I just need some encouragement.

Jadecristal
 
Jade- Move wherever you want. Gun laws and an effective "tax to service/quality of life" ratio do go into my decison making on where I choose to live. That's why I live in south central PA instead of Maryland. It's not the only thing.

That said, I'd move back to WI in a heartbeat. We lived just outside Lake Geneva. Great schools, great community, great people, great access to art and cultural activities, good golf, MY FAVORITE GUN STORE- Dam Road Gun Shop in Delavan, great hunting, and yes- some long winters.

I can and do CCW in PA. Whoopty-doo. My life has not gotten "better" in any significant way because my state has CCW. Don't get me wrong, I like it, respect the right, and exercise it. Wisconsin is no more politically polluted, corrupt, or slimy than the next state (just look south!). UW Madison is a crazy hotbed of social-justice liberal activism. Know what, I appreciate their passion, even if it is mis-guided. I had some of that zeal when I was a kid. It's well intentioned, if somewhat misplaced. I trust that most of the pretty intelligent kids there will grow up, get jobs, and have families. That process usually helps to clear up soft headed thinking.

Anyway, I'm rambling on a Saturday morning. I'll send some money. Enjoy another 151 days of winter!:D
 
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>Enjoy another 151 days of winter!<

Actually, given how the weather has been so far this year, it wouldn't supprise me to have the bikes out by the end of the month (keep in mind that Spoon's won't start below 50 without a LOT of ether and a battery charger)...

Jadecristal: I know how you feel. I've mentioned more than once that Texas looks better every day: already have CCW, riding weather almost year-round, BACA chapters that are already well-established. All headaches that I'd be leaving behind. That said...

I will stay here, and continue to fight. May be we'll finally win with my last breath, may be we'll win tomorrow. I don't know. But, eventually, we WILL win, one way or another...

I know many people are depressed about how we lost: last time, we missed by one vote, this time by two. But we're awfully close to winning: if we can a)keep the Republican majority in the senate and b)replace Doyle, we win, and win BIG. Like an absolutely clean shall-issue CCW law

However, you need to make the decisions that are right for YOU, not for anyone else. If you decide to stay and fight, you're welcome (and more than welcome) among us. If you decide that moving is right for you, no hard feelings about it, we understand...
 
If we had any governor--Democrat or Republican--other than Doyle, I'm certain that our bill would have passed and been signed.

There are many Democrats who would vote for the bill if Doyle weren't threatening them, including Van Akkeren and Steinbrink. Both of those guys have pretty solid pro-gun credentials. I don't know what Doyle has on them, or what he threatened them with, but there was something.

That's why it's so important to get Doyle out of office. And why it's so important to raise money.

Right now, Doyle has a commanding lead in contributions. We need to help raise enough money to make sure he goes down.

One thing that really ticked me off was Doyle's 1pm press conference on the day of the veto override. We went up to his office and tried to get in, but only two PPA supporters were allowed. The other two or three dozen of us were told we had to stay outside. (The Capitol Police officer was apologetic, and told me that he was sorry, but he couldn't do anything. He's also an NRA member).

When one of the PPA volunteers who was inside asked Doyle a question, the anti's drowned him out, shouting "you're not a reporter! You're not supposed to be here!"

It may sound tacky, but the solution is simple: contribute.
 
CCW: Concealed Carry Weapon.

A state-issued license or permit for an "ordinary citizen" to carry a concealed handgun (sometimes other weapons) in public. "CCW" is generaly the most universal term used in gun and self-defense discussions.

Other states call them by other names:

CWP Concealed Weapons Permit
CHL Concealed Handgun License
CCL Concealed Carry License

Etc.

Wisconsin's bill was known as the PPA or Personal Protection Act. Actualy, I've focused on the battle so much I don't know what our licenses would have actualy been called, had it passed.

We have had the majority in our legislature for over three sessions now.

In 2002, It would have passed, and been signed by our Republican governor. However, the anti-gun Democrat Senate Majority Leader improperly blocked the bill for coming up for a vote, knowing it would pass, and let the legislature session expire, hoping an anti-gun Democrat Governor would be elected in the fall. (He was.)

In 2004, the PPA passed both the WI Assembly and Senate with a 2/3rds veto-proof majority. It was (as expected) vetoed by the Governor. The veto was overriden in the Senate, however we were exactly at the 2/3rds in the Assembly, and the Governor managed to bribe a Democrat who was originaly a co-sponsor of the bill into flip-flopping at the last minute, with promises of campaign help the next fall, or a high-paying state job should he have been un-elected. (The anti-governor helped this Assemblyman campaign at the opposite end of the state and raise money. He was re-elected.)

Just now in 2006, the PPA again passed both the WI Assembly and Senate with a 2/3rds veto-proof majority. It was (as expected) vetoed by the Governor. This time two Democratic Assemblymen flipped their votes. We had more warning as they refused to say how they would vote on the override, and were worrying us for some time. It remains to be seen what the Governor, or the Democratic leadership has promised them in return for thier flip.

So you can see just how close, and how frustrating our battle to get CCW here in WI has been.
 
Done. Will try to raid the piggy bank at a later date to try to bump up the donation a little more. :D
 
Monkeyleg said:
One thing that really ticked me off was Doyle's 1pm press conference on the day of the veto override. We went up to his office and tried to get in, but only two PPA supporters were allowed. The other two or three dozen of us were told we had to stay outside. (The Capitol Police officer was apologetic, and told me that he was sorry, but he couldn't do anything. He's also an NRA member).

What also pissed me off was watching Hamblin, Noble Wray and their ilk walk out and all they could do was look at the floor/in the other direction. Elitist jerks. Of course, Doyle did not seem to want to leave his office...

I'm STILL mad. You'll be getting $ from me very shortly. I encourage anyone who actually gives a damn about this cause to contribute. Put your $ where your mouth is so we can boot that ******* out of office...
 
I'll give what I can.

Jadecristal: I don't blame you for being down on the process. I've only been here a year and only started trying to get the bill passed when I called and emailed in favour of the override. I have two young kids and very little personal time to spare but will give what time, effort and money I can.
 
The defeats we've suffered in the last three sessions have something in common: leadership by liberal Democrats.

Yes, that's obvious. But it should also be obvious that we cannot get concealed carry passed with a Democrat governor in office. Even if we get a Republican for governor (very good chance), we still need to have the Republicans keep control of both the assembly and the senate.

Late at night, I sometimes wonder if we'd gotten together $40,000 to give to Chuck Chvala in 2002, if we couldn't have gotten our bill passed.

But those kind of tactics are used by the anti-gunners. We have to be better than that.

I hate to keep beating this horse, but the best way we can get CCW passed here in WI is to donate money. To Green or Walker, and to every assembly and senate candidate who's willing to accept donations from a political action committee named "Wisconsin Concealed Carry Movement."

The name leaves little doubt as to what we're about.

The maximum donation to a candidate for governor is a bit over $42,000. The maximum to an assembly candidate is $500, and the max to a senate candidate is $1000.

Should we be able to raise more than the $60,000+ I expect we'll need, there are perfectly legal and ethical ways of sending additional funds from our PAC to the campaigns of candidates who need more help.

I would also call on any WI members of this forum to take the initiative to organize fund-raising events at their local shops/ranges. It's pretty easy, and a four-hour event can bring in well over $1000.

If you want concealed carry, you have to work for it.

When I got back home after the Assembly veto override vote last week, I found literally over a hundred emails from new supporters asking how they could help.

Where were they before?
 
>When I got back home after the Assembly veto override vote last week, I found literally over a hundred emails from new supporters asking how they could help.

Where were they before?<

Dick, the feeling i got from a LOT of "Joe Sixpacks" was that CCW was pretty much a done deal this time around. I THINK I understand why: we only lost by one vote before, we should breeze through this time. Hopefully, this woke a few people up: i REALLY want to take a break from this fight!
 
WI Supreme Court

State Vs. Fisher is coming up on the calendar soon. Should be interesting.

I suspect that now that the court's makeup has shifted, they'll rule as narrowly as possible, but it could move things further in our direction.

http://www.courts.state.wi.us/news/archives/2005/scnewcases110105.htm

Scroll about 2/3rds of the way down. I don't want to saddle anyone who didn't want it with a PDF link to the actual case...
 
Are there any limits to donations being raised by an auction or lottery? I'm just wondering if we could assemble some donated firearms, accessories, hunting gear, etc and sold tickets or held some kind of statewide auction and send the proceeds to WCCM.
 
Games of chance are a no-no by law for political action committees.

We can do auctions, but the items would either have to be donated (and the value of the item from the donor reported as a contribution), or just buy the item and hope that it sells for more than what we paid.

If anyone wants to do an auction or other type of fund-raiser, just let me know.

I'm still trying to put together the subgun fund-raising shoot. Should be coming up soon. Looks like we'll have MACs, Thompson,
Walther, HK Mp5 and UMP45, UZI pistol, and Berreta 12. Also some suppressed firearms.
 
If you think Doyle is a friend of personal freedoms than you just have not been paying attention - he has WI govt for sale to the highest bidder, has vetoed countless bills allowing citizens choices on taxes, keeping elections clean, the Personal Protection Act, etc and is driving business away from Wisconsin. He's as slimy as a politician could possibly be, maybe even worse than Chvala.

He is very much in the liberal mold of "I'll decide what's right for you - you as citizens cannot possibly be allowed to do what's right for yourself, so I'll have to do it". He doesn't trust you and I with firearms, as he has made perfectly clear, but he does travel with a cadre of armed individuals himself.

One thing's for sure, while Mark Green may hold firm on his positions - if you don't like Doyle's you could pay him to change them, I'm sure he'd be open to it.
 
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MattC, our group is called the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Movement, not any other "Movement."

The focus for the group is on one issue only: CCW. If we decided who to help or who to oppose based upon other issues, the whole group would fall apart.
 
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Matt,
I don't see any verbiage in AB 343 that comes anywhere close to prohibiting birth control. You might want to do some research on the "abortion pills'...they are killing women as we speak.

Anyway, an honorable man, one who stands up for his beliefs...regardless of them is better than the man who lies, steals, and cheats.

Unfortunately for me I voted for Doyle last time around. I was living out of the state and was infuritated at the fraud, waste, and abuse by McCullum. I believed Doyle would be more honest. But we can see prime examples of his dishonesty in the CCW case.

I love Wisconsin but am no longer a resident...hope you can pull this thing off...I will one day return.
 
I'm a student at present and for the next 14 days (when I'll graduate) at the UW-Madison.

I'm personally in favour of the CCW legislation that was vetoed. I have considered this long and hard, and often in my Politcal Science classes I was the only one in favour of CCW. Nothing news to me.

The problem, as I see it, is not necessarily the current Governor. Consider, if you will, a Republican Governor, and leave everything else as it is. The Democratic side would either have Filibustered, or have cajoled their way to defeating the bill outright. Doyle knew he could count on Veto-breakers in his own camp to stop the thing if he vetoed it. No one was worried on the Democratic side that it would pass.

The primary issue, I think, is the perception, even among some conservatives, that guns are like a virus, and the only way to get rid of them is to legislate them and enforce them away. I know this to be a patent fallacy. Especially when I see that all a gun-access-restriction law does is remove firearms from law-abiding citizens without affecting the criminal's access to them. The perception, however, is endorsed by the medical community. It also doesn't help matters when people form independent militias. I don't want to say stop it, but understand that such groups are easily portrayed as 'rebels' and as 'shoot-first' sorts of people. (As to whether that's all true or not, I won't get into, not having any experience with which to make the judgement.)

I don't think it's money that we need so much, Monkeylegs. What we need is better publicity and better outreach to the more gun-friendly rural communities. Madison and Milwaukee are both hotbeds of liberalism, and that means gun-control. The only way to meaningfully counter that hold is by outreach to the more scattered areas of the State, and by community outreach in the cities to help counter the perception of CCW advocates as desert-eagle-packing vigilantes.

I'd give you money if I had any, but I'm currently on the budget of a shoestring. So I give you what I have, and that's advice. ^.^
 
Truesilver, thanks for the reply.

Please allow me to address your points.

With regard to Governor Doyle, let's compare his level of power to that of Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius, whose veto of KS's CCW bill was just overridden.

She just got hit with some fairly serious ethics charges; my guess is that members of the Democrat Party in KS knew these charges were coming, and decided to keep their distance, not to mention their promises.

Doyle's campaign staff is embroiled in campaign finance investigations by a federal grand jury, but nothing has touched Doyle...yet. And he is a very vicious fighter. I must give him credit for that. He's extremely good at keeping his troops in line, no matter how despicable his tactics.

As for trying to get the public on our side through persuasive arguments: it's a waste of time. The media won't give us the proper outlet to explain the issue. Even on those rare ocassions when they do, the papers slant the columns with line art of AK-47's, cute but anti-gun column titles, or rebuttals from the folks at the Brady Bunch. And they let the Brady Bunch lie, but edit out any facts our side presents.

As for the gun-friendly outlying districts, we already have their support. And we have the support of legislators from those districts.

And, as for the issue of money, I'm sorry to be so cynical, but you don't know the system yet. Stick around; you'll learn.

Five years ago, nobody at the Capitol knew who the WCCA was.

I've been told many, many times that--if it were not for the efforts of all of the WCCA volunteers at the gun shows, at the Capitol, at committee hearings and elsewhere--CCW would not be as big an issue as it is now. Or it might still be a dead issue.

I certainly hope that every WCCA volunteer reading this post takes pride in that. You've all earned it. But please don't quit, especially now, when our stakes are at their highest ever.

But another reason that the WCCA has gotten the attention of lawmakers is that our political action committee--the WCCM--has been contributing thousands of dollars to candidates. Roughly $14,000 in 2004, and IIRC somewhere in that ballpark in 2002.

This year? I just wrote a check for $10,000 to Mark Green's campaign for governor yesterday, and there's more coming. Much more. Much more for his campaign, as well as the campaigns for AG, senate and assembly.

Now the WCCA isn't regarded as a bunch of unknown rabble-rousers. The senators, representatives and challengers are calling us.

Why?

Because we're raising money for campaigns. No other gun group in the state is doing that.

And that's how campaigns are won or lost. That is reality. Don't like it? Then get accustomed to losing.

I'm going to keep badgering every last person who's emailed to say they want concealed carry in Wisconsin to do just one thing: help raise money.

That $10,000 to Green's campaign is just the beginning. We have another $33,128 to raise for him. Plus tens of thousands of dollars for all of the other campaigns.

WCCA volunteers, AACFI instructors, Massad Ayoob's LFI instructors, and many other folks are working to reach that goal.

Somewhere around July 20th or so, the newspapers will run stories about which candidate campaigns got how much money, and from where. The WCCA won't be noted in those stories, because our fund-raisers have only begun.

But...after the September primaries, there's going to be more stories about where the contributions came from. And those anti-gun, liberal reporters are going to express shock that supporters of concealed carry raised so much money to contribute to campaigns. I promise you that will happen.

There's a Democrat legislator who's always--always--been on our side, through both of Doyle's vetoes. And Doyle has recruited an anti-CCW Democrat candidate to run against this legislator in the September primaries. And Doyle is going to try to defeat our friend.

That is Jim Doyle. He'll eat his own.

But I've been working on getting contributions to our Democrat friend. And, when the other pro-gun Democrats in Madison see that pro-CCW supporters are willing to help friends of either party, some of them are going to think twice about standing beside Doyle.

At this point in the election cycle, money isn't everything. It's the only thing.

Here are the possible outcomes for CCW after the November elections:

1. Mark Green becomes governor, Republicans maintain at least a 17:16 majority in the Senate, and a 50:49 majority in the Assembly. Outcome: we get concealed carry. In fact, I've been promised that the bill will be passed and signed by March or so of next year, or maybe even earlier.

2. Jim Doyle wins re-election, Republicans maintain majorities in the Senate and Assembly. Outcome: we do not get concealed carry.

3. Mark Green becomes governor, Democrats win a simple majority in either chamber. Outcome: we do not get concealed carry.

If Doyle raises more money than Green, Doyle will likely win. If our opponents raise more money than our friends in legislative campaigns, our friends will lose.

This isn't a fight over ideas. It's a fight over who gets the most TV commercials, who gets the most mailings out, and who gets the most name recognition. It's a fight to win the votes of that very small number of voters who don't pay a minute's attention to the issues.

IOW, it's a fight for money.
 
Dick, there isn't any other organization connected to your PAC?

Have you considered starting one that would function as a non-profit? They wouldn't be able to donate to candidates, but could do voter education in a lot of cases. They also have more fundraising options.
 
Barbara, we have the WCCA. It's not-for-profit, but we don't have to file returns because nobody gets paid.

If the WCCA, though, started getting into elections, we could run up against state election laws.

Even if the WCCA printed up flyers that said "Vote for Dave Zien," there's some law someplace that we'd probably be violating.

It's just easier to have the WCCA talk about legislation specifically (which is legal), and to have the WCCM talk about candidates specifically (which is legal). It's when the two mix that we enter a grey area.

Back in 2001, I started the WCCM (our PAC) first. I printed up flyers talking about concealed carry. A friend of mine who knows the laws better than I do called and said, "Dick, you're crossing the line."

I said, "do you mean to tell me that I can ask people to contribute, but I can't mention the issue for which they're contributing?"

"That's right."

Sometimes, the law is just crazy.
 
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