Please school me on .38 Special wadcutters consumables

[.38 Special]

I was hoping to avoid trimming .38 cases, but it sounds like it's going to be fairly necessary with WC. Now I need to get a case trimmer!

Thanks.

Just for what it's worth, I rarely trim .38 Special, even for competition - primarily because I was loading in batches of 1000 and there's just no way...

 

[Mark_Mark]

anybody had luck with these Berry WC?

 

[Mark_Mark]

Just for what it's worth, I rarely trim .38 Special, even for competition - primarily because I was loading in batches of 1000 and there's just no way...

trimming 1,000 .38… my fingers hurt from cranking that trimer already!

How’s your accuracy with un trimmed .38 brass and are you using full WC’s bullets?

 

[high country]

The Berry's HBWCs are OK, but not my favorite. They are too hard to obturate well and get the accuracy of a soft swaged HBWC, but they have the thinner center of a HBWC so I am nervous about blowing the center out and leaving a skirt in the barrel with standard pressure loads

They aren't terrible, I just didn't see the accuracy I see with the softer HBWC and if I am loading to standard pressure I'll take a SWC or DEWC. Take that for what it's worth, I am definitely not a reloading expert or a good shot. It is just my experience.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

Just for what it's worth, I rarely trim .38 Special, even for competition - primarily because I was loading in batches of 1000 and there's just no way...

That's good to hear. I mainly ordered the Dillon 750 so that I can use the case feeder to decap quickly with a Lee App press. I'm very lazy.

I wouldn't mind trimming every couple of loads...but man, I don't wanna do it every time.

 

[Mark_Mark]

That's good to hear. I mainly ordered the Dillon 750 so that I can use the case feeder to decap quickly with a Lee App press. I'm very lazy.

I wouldn't mind trimming every couple of loads...but man, I don't wanna do it every time.

I seen a case trimmer that is motorized and you set it and pop them in a hole

 

[ballman6711]

I was hoping to avoid trimming .38 cases, but it sounds like it's going to be fairly necessary with WC. Now I need to get a case trimmer!

If you are planning on loading bottleneck rifle at a later date, you'll need a case trimmer anyway. So if you get one be sure it is able to trim any cartridge you may want to load later.

chris

 

[ballman6711]

I seen a case trimmer that is motorized and you set it and pop them in a hole

I have a hand cranked trimmer, and it works well for me. But I only do 50-100 at a time.

OP, how often are you planning to trim brass, and how many at a time? These questions will help you determine if you need a trimmer and if so which trimmer.

chris

 

[high country]

That's good to hear. I mainly ordered the Dillon 750 so that I can use the case feeder to decap quickly with a Lee App press. I'm very lazy.

I wouldn't mind trimming every couple of loads...but man, I don't wanna do it every time.

You don't need to do it every time, just the first time through a pile of mixed brass. Once they are all the same length they will pretty much stay that way. It is really the initial length variation from manufacturer to manufacturer that messes with the crimp.

 

[Riomouse911]

You don't need to do it every time, just the first time through a pile of mixed brass. Once they are all the same length they will pretty much stay that way. It is really the initial length variation from manufacturer to manufacturer that messes with the crimp.

Ya, they don’t stretch much at all. Even with 10-15 loadings of standard pressure .38’s, my cases will show minimal stretch (if any).

Now cracked case mouths from use? Those will happen eventually.

Stay safe.

 

[Mike44]

Missouri Bullet Company offers sample packs (100 of the bullet of your choice). If you want to experiment with different lead coated or uncoated bullets you might find the sample packs useful.
MBC offers a discount to highroad members.

 

[.38 Special]

Regarding case length, when I was ordering a thousand pieces at a time from Starline I found minimal variation. The resulting variations in crimp might have affected 200 yard accuracy...

(@Mark_Mark In my competition days, the guns would outshoot me to at least 50 yards, which were the longest stages. The ten ring of the B-27 target is 4"x6", and the gun would keep them all inside if I pointed it correctly.)

Mixed brass is a different story, of course, and I prefer not to use it for anything more than short range and/or rapid-fire practice.

 

[Mark_Mark]

You don't need to do it every time, just the first time through a pile of mixed brass. Once they are all the same length they will pretty much stay that way. It is really the initial length variation from manufacturer to manufacturer that messes with the crimp.

well that makes sense!!!! thanks

 

[Mark_Mark]

Regarding case length, when I was ordering a thousand pieces at a time from Starline I found minimal variation. The resulting variations in crimp might have affected 200 yard accuracy... (@Mark_Mark In my competition days, the guns would outshoot me to at least 50 yards, which were the longest stages. The ten ring of the B-27 target is 4"x6", and the gun would keep them all inside if I pointed it correctly.)

Mixed brass is a different story, of course, and I prefer not to use it for anything more than short range and/or rapid-fire practice.

if I hit something at 200 yards with a hand gun… going home and buying a lottery ticket. I would be happy with 4” group at 10 yards!

 

[TacticalJanitor]

I have a hand cranked trimmer, and it works well for me. But I only do 50-100 at a time.

OP, how often are you planning to trim brass, and how many at a time? These questions will help you determine if you need a trimmer and if so which trimmer.

chris

Some Internet posts said that trimming .38 brass once per year is enough, but I don't really know yet. I've been looking at the Dillon RT1500. It will be a while until I can buy that. I've blown enough money this week.

For now, I think I'll get a trimmer that can attach to a drill...but am still researching options.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

Missouri Bullet Company offers sample packs (100 of the bullet of your choice). If you want to experiment with different lead coated or uncoated bullets you might find the sample packs useful.
MBC offers a discount to highroad members.

That's a good tip. Thanks.

Missouri Bullet Company keeps coming up in these posts. That's a good sign for them.

 

[Mark_Mark]

The Berry's HBWCs are OK, but not my favorite. They are too hard to obturate well and get the accuracy of a soft swaged HBWC, but they have the thinner center of a HBWC so I am nervous about blowing the center out and leaving a skirt in the barrel with standard pressure loads

They aren't terrible, I just didn't see the accuracy I see with the softer HBWC and if I am loading to standard pressure I'll take a SWC or DEWC. Take that for what it's worth, I am definitely not a reloading expert or a good shot. It is just my experience.

what are you trimming to? I got some time today and want to set up my trimmer

 

[ballman6711]

I've been reloading for almost five years now, and have yet to trim a piece of pistol brass. My understanding is that straight wall pistol brass will grow shorter as it's fired, as opposed to bottleneck rifle brass which grows in length.

You could always wait until you're ready to start loading for your rifle before buying a trimmer. It would give you plenty of time to research your purchase.

chris

 

[high country]

I use a lee trimmer with my drill press and trim to min SAAMI spec of 1.135". That way I can just trim mixed brass and it should all end the same length since no manufacturer should be making brass shorter than that.

The lee trimmer on a drill is a slow but inexpensive option. I just do 50 or 100 at a time when I have a few spare minutes, and keep a bin of cleaned, sized, trimmed cases on my bench ready for when I want to load some. I load on a single stage press, and speed is not my goal. It is just something I enjoy doing in the evening that doesn't involve staring at a screen of one type or another.

I don't trim 9mm brass because I don't crimp. But I crimp .38, and a reasonably consistent length is needed to get a consistent crimp. Rifle brass on the other hand gets trimmed every time after sizing.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

I use a lee trimmer with my drill press and trim to min SAAMI spec of 1.135". That way I can just trim mixed brass and it should all end the same length since no manufacturer should be making brass shorter than that.

The lee trimmer on a drill is a slow but inexpensive option. I just do 50 or 100 at a time when I have a few spare minutes, and keep a bin of cleaned, sized, trimmed cases on my bench ready for when I want to load some. I load on a single stage press, and speed is not my goal. It is just something I enjoy doing in the evening that doesn't involve staring at a screen of one type or another.

I don't trim 9mm brass because I don't crimp. But I crimp .38, and a reasonably consistent length is needed to get a consistent crimp. Rifle brass on the other hand gets trimmed every time after sizing.

I think I will need to start with a "slow" method too. For decapping, I ordered the Frankford Arsenal handheld-jobbie (which will probably be slow). After giving it a try, I'll learn about faster options. I'll check out the Lee trimmer. Thanks.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I use a lee trimmer with my drill press and trim to min SAAMI spec of 1.135". That way I can just trim mixed brass and it should all end the same length since no manufacturer should be making brass shorter than that.

The lee trimmer on a drill is a slow but inexpensive option. I just do 50 or 100 at a time when I have a few spare minutes, and keep a bin of cleaned, sized, trimmed cases on my bench ready for when I want to load some. I load on a single stage press, and speed is not my goal. It is just something I enjoy doing in the evening that doesn't involve staring at a screen of one type or another.

I don't trim 9mm brass because I don't crimp. But I crimp .38, and a reasonably consistent length is needed to get a consistent crimp. Rifle brass on the other hand gets trimmed every time after sizing.

I’m just going to sort brass out by stamp, and trim with my old school RCBS hand cranker! probably could do 1,000 in a few week of a few minutes a day!!!

 

[TacticalJanitor]

I would really like to find something that will decap and trim in the same step (prior to washing/cleaning). Does such a thing exist? Google isn't finding much.

 

[EricBu]

Today I ordered a Dillon Xl-750 with all the trimmings, thanks to a previous thread of mine. Many generous members provided a lot of helpful advice in an effort to get me where I'm trying to go as a new reloader.

I am now beginning to collect information about reloading for .38 Special in bulk and am wading through many Internet sites and minutia. Below is an explanation of where I THINK I am in the process.
<snipped for brevity>

Note, I load about 5K 38 SPL's a month or so. Both reload and new brass. In years past, was on a 750, now on a Mark 7.

1st: Powder, you are now in the world of the volumetric powder measure. You need to consider metering in your powder choice. Probably the top number one powder for loading 38 SPL on a progressive is AA2 (Or Shooter's World Clean Shot which is ***very** close). Meter's like water, and a great 38 Powder. Bullseye, Unique, and many of the classic old school powders....meter like gravel through a banana. There are lots of choices out there, but before buying, research "will powder blahblah meter in a dillon powder measure" or ask on here. This is especially important with 38, as you'll be throwing small charges...a powder that doesn't meter will have a HUGE variation when you're talking a 4 or 5 grain charge.

2nd: Projectiles. You can buy the same MBC coated bullets you're used to, and they are great great bullets. 38 SPL is fine with plated bullets, with a light roll crimp, and in light loads. Xtreme and Berry's both work. Zero jacketed bullets are also a great low cost plinker or even the 110 and 125 JHP's for defense. They have a wide variety in 38, including classic 130 FMJ. Zero bullets are so cheap, they can be affordable plinkers as well as defense. I prefer the MBC or similar coated bullets myself. In this day and age, lubed are for purists and people dedicated to the art of casting and old school methods, no reason to use them with the modern coatings available today, and they can be a hot mess in a progressive. DEWC/HBWC...personal preference. Berry's makes a nice plated HBWC that works real well in 38 SPL. Some people say the HBWC obturate better, and are more accurate at lower velocities. I can't shoot well enough to tell;-)

3rd: Primers. Yes, CCI's are hard. You'll likely only ever have an issue if you're running them in one of the super light DAO revolvers, or a "cowboy" gun with a lightened hammer and spring, those will usually restrike if they don't go boom the first time. Federal Small Pistols are the most consistent in this regard, and the primer of choice for folks with these types of guns.

 

[TacticalJanitor]

Note, I load about 5K 38 SPL's a month or so. Both reload and new brass. In years past, was on a 750, now on a Mark 7.

1st: Powder, you are now in the world of the volumetric powder measure. You need to consider metering in your powder choice. Probably the top number one powder for loading 38 SPL on a progressive is AA2 (Or Shooter's World Clean Shot which is ***very** close). Meter's like water, and a great 38 Powder. Bullseye, Unique, and many of the classic old school powders....meter like gravel through a banana. There are lots of choices out there, but before buying, research "will powder blahblah meter in a dillon powder measure" or ask on here. This is especially important with 38, as you'll be throwing small charges...a powder that doesn't meter will have a HUGE variation when you're talking a 4 or 5 grain charge.

2nd: Projectiles. You can buy the same MBC coated bullets you're used to, and they are great great bullets. 38 SPL is fine with plated bullets, with a light roll crimp, and in light loads. Xtreme and Berry's both work. Zero jacketed bullets are also a great low cost plinker or even the 110 and 125 JHP's for defense. They have a wide variety in 38, including classic 130 FMJ. Zero bullets are so cheap, they can be affordable plinkers as well as defense. I prefer the MBC or similar coated bullets myself. In this day and age, lubed are for purists and people dedicated to the art of casting and old school methods, no reason to use them with the modern coatings available today, and they can be a hot mess in a progressive. DEWC/HBWC...personal preference. Berry's makes a nice plated HBWC that works real well in 38 SPL. Some people say the HBWC obturate better, and are more accurate at lower velocities. I can't shoot well enough to tell;-)

3rd: Primers. Yes, CCI's are hard. You'll likely only ever have an issue if you're running them in one of the super light DAO revolvers, or a "cowboy" gun with a lightened hammer and spring, those will usually restrike if they don't go boom the first time. Federal Small Pistols are the most consistent in this regard, and the primer of choice for folks with these types of guns.

Thank you! AA2 keeps coming up, so I think that will be a good choice for me to start with. I most certainly do not want to have metering issues. The whole point of a progressive is to go faster.

Wow. 5000 rounds a month. Are you shooting that much? If so, you put me to shame Sir!

 

[mdi]

I quit using soft swage HBWC many years ago. Normal cast (ferget the "hard cast" nomenclature stuff) DEWC have worked quite well for my 5, 38 cal revolvers. Fit is the single most important to reducing/stopping barrel leading. Barrel slugging is OK for information (groove diameter, constrictions, rough spots, etc. and making sure the throat diameter is larger than groove diameter), but just a start. I started casting in the '90s and found for all my guns and cast bullets the best method is sizing bullets to the same diameter as the cylinder throats. Throats are easily measured using slugging, same method as barrels (pin/plug gauges and expanding ball mics, are more accurate but not a lot of reloaders have them).

My suggestions for a new reloader (or a reloader trying a new caliber) is to start with a tried and true, "classic" load. For 38 Special there is nothing wrong withn158 gr LRN or SWCs powered by Bullseye. Of course availability can be a problem today. Starting with jacketed bullets is easier/simpler as no sizing, BHN, or lube is considered, especially if one has to purchase components. In my opinion most commercial cast bullets are too hard (18 BHN+) and most lube that is much too hard. Coated bullets are good and even though I cast many bullets I occasionally get lazy and buy some. Most of my purchased cast lead bullets are made by Acme Bullets. Good quality, good sizing, very good coating. Shipping is quick and they come in neat little wooder boxes. About a bizzillion 130 gr, FMJ bullets have been reloaded and fired. Easy reloading.

Having taught apprentices I've found the best method and easiest to retain knowledge is K.I.S.S. Why add potential problems to a new reloader?

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...