Pocket Auto - cheap & reliable

[Azrael256]

Can anyone tell me why not to buy either one?

Yeah, I've got one for you. The Bersa does some strange things occasionally. While I have yet to see a single loading, firing, or ejecting problem, I do know that the Bersa has the strange tendency to drop into battery from inserting a magazine. A good friend's Bersa has started doing it after several hundred rounds. While it's no big deal at the moment, it does make me wonder just how sturdy the slide stop is. I'm wondering at what point the slide will fail to lock open when the mag is empty. In the Bersa's defense, however, it is a real easy shooter and is surprisngly accurate for such a small gun. It is just a real pleasure to shoot.

Thing is, if you're in that size and weight class, you might look at some of the 9mm offerings. Kahr is a good bet, as is Kel-Tec. The Bersa doesn't really compare to the P3AT as the two guns are definitely in different classes. The Bersa is in the subcompact range, while the P3AT is a pocket gun.

In my own, recently concluded, search for a subcompact or pocket pistol, I went back and forth between the Bersa and the Kel-Tec for at least five grueling hours that Dionysusigma was patient enough to endure. Fed up with my inane rambling, he finally suggested that I just go shoot the guns to see which I liked best. I tried out the P3AT, and while it was a good pistol, it is simply uncontrollable in my gorilla hands. The Bersa was nice and comfortable, but I figured that if I was in that size and weight class, I might as well go 9mm. I tried out the P11 from Kel-Tec (I asked for the H&K P11, but no dice on that one) and the Kahr PM9. I found the Kel-Tec to be more in my price range, and even though the 9mm is a good deal hotter, the added size and weight made it much more controllable than the .380 pocket offerings.

I strongly encourage you, or anybody else looking at pocket autos to try out whatever you're looking at before making a decision. This is a very different situation from most autos. The RIA, Kimber, Colt, and Springfield 1911s are all going to shoot about the same, as everything is real close to the same spec. Selection between those guns boils down to budget (just how much refinement can you afford) and personal preference (which beavertail feels the best). With pocket guns, every model is completely different, and how it looks in the case or feels while dry firing doesn't necessarily translate to useability in live fire.

 

[Geno]

Pocket Pistol Comparison Chart

One of the members here has developed a "Pocket Pistol Comparison Chart". Do a search and check it out. I vote for the KelTec .380. I have the olive drab with hard chrome. I carry it a lot as my back up. It is very accurate, but with a 10 pound trigger, you really have to "do your part".

Doc2005

 

[rhkirk1]

The p3-at only has a 5.5 lb trigger. I find it to be pretty good.

 

[eagle24]

About 1 month ago I was target practicing in the woods and an unknown, huge dog 225+ lbs ran up to me at full speed, barking, and then jumped on me.

Holy Smoke! I want my 7mm WSM for a 225lb dog!

Let me first say thanks to all of you who have given your input and posted your experiences with various makes and models. I may end up buying 3 or 4 guns based on the input received in this thread! Yep, I love em, love to shoot, and can never have too many.

I decided to try the Bersa Thunder and bought one yesterday. There were a couple of things that influenced my decision in the end. First off, the local gun shop in town had a Bersa Thunder in stock. Also, the owner is a good customer of my business so I bought the gun from him. Based off the info, I think I would have bought the Firestorm, but he didn't have one. I think I deviated from my requirement of "small" and probably didn't gain much (if anything) over a compact revolver in size, but in the end I just liked the Bersa/Firestorm design the best. He personally owns a Thunder and a Kel-Tec and offered to let me take the Kel-Tec and try it some time. I intend to try the Kel-Tec and might end up with one of them for a "truly small" carry gun. As for the S&W 642, I pretty well know they are great guns, but already own 2 snub-nosed .38's. There are some good 9's and 40's available, but I really wanted a .380 instead. When it comes to a real self defense handgun I will opt for what I am most comfortable with which is a .357mag revolver. I'm mostly a wheelgun guy and more concerned with shooting and hunting than personal defense. My handgun collection reflects this (long barrels and big bores). Anyway, Thanks for all the advice!

 

[wbond]

To Eagle:

Bersa also makes a sub-compact they call the "Concealed Carry" version. It's smaller and lighter and truly a pocket gun.

However, I would not want one because at 17 oz I know the recoil would hurt my arthritic hands. That probably isn't a concern to you though.

The other reason I don't recommend the CC version is that it has a shorter barrel. I personally would not own a pistol with a barrel shorter than 3.5" because these small cartridges need all the help they can get. Both .32 ACP and .380 ACP ammo are made for a 4" barrel and offer some decent potency from a 4" barrel (especially the .380).

I've read stopping power sources that say a .380 ACP from a 4" barrel is better than a .38 Spl from a 2" barrel; and a .380 from a 3.5" barrel is equal to a .38 Spl 2" barrel. The .380 ACP 3.5 " barrel guns and .38 Spl 2" barrel gun are about the same size and weight, except the .380s are thinner.

From a 3.5" barrel (standard Bersa and Firestorm) a .380 is not potent, but borderline. However, borderline is good enough for me considering the guns fit my pockets, especially my coat pocket and are fairly light at 23 oz, yet are easy to shoot.

However, once you get shorter than a 3.5" barrel (like CC version 3.25"), then the .380 performance is pitiful.

So although Bersa makes a smaller one, you got the best size, IMO.

 

[wbond]

Regarding the slide catch issue someone posted:

I have heard of the defective slide catch issue before.

My Firestorms have been 100% reliable in all ways. However, I'm sure that some guns out there could have this problem since I've heard of it before.

However, when I heard of this before, the fella with the problem said he sent it in and they fixed it for no charge.

Bersas and Firestorms both have an excellent warrenty that covers repair or replacement for life of the original owner. In my case, that'll be another 30 to 40 years, I hope.

What more could you ask for than that?

 

[wbond]

I'm seriously considering purchasing the 15 rd Bersa Thunder .380 Plus

Yes they exist and are for sale for $300.

Want to know more? Please return to this thread next weekend.

 

[Manedwolf]

The Firestorm .380 and Taurus small frame 3" barrel .38 Spl carry OK in slacks (pants) pocket while offering much better one shot stopping potential. The .380 also offers many more rounds than either of the other two.

What kind of pants is it that people wear that a revolver doesn't print plain as day through the pocket? A

Anything I have, from cargo jeans to Banana Republic khakis, would show a big GUN shape if I tried to stuff any .38 revolver in the pocket...and yes, I have, with a friend's, to see.

 

[lee n. field]

Yeah, I've got one for you. The Bersa does some strange things occasionally. . . . I do know that the Bersa has the strange tendency to drop into battery from inserting a magazine.

I wouldn't call that a terribly strange thing. One of my Makarovs does this. I suspect a new slide catch would fix it.

What kind of pants is it that people wear that a revolver doesn't print plain as day through the pocket?

I've got a pair of BDU pants that you could drop one of them Ruger Alaskan thingees into, and it would vanish, the pants are that baggy and the pockets that big. Too bad I seldom have occation to wear them. . .

 

[Srigs]

Love my Kel-tec P32.

My friend has both a Kel-tec P3AT and a Bersa Thunder 380 and the Kel-tec is his pocket gun.

 

[Jeff Timm]

Manedwolf asked, "What kind of pants is it that people wear that a revolver doesn't print plain as day through the pocket?"

Cargo pants with a good holster. I'm studying taking may work pants and replacing the regular pockets with a double pocket, that hangs lower than stock. Using the inside one for a DeSantis or Uncle Mike's holster and the outer for the junk I carry.

Geoff
Who is a geek with full pockets.

 

[wbond]

To Maned Wolf about pants pocket carry:

You're making me repeat myself. Here goes again.

I explained what kind of pants pocket in my earlier post. If you'd read it more carefully, you'd have seen that I said slacks (a bit loose as all slacks are these days) with a watch pocket. All my slacks have a watch pocket. Specifically, I have Claiborne slacks, as I said in my earlier post. Go to Meier and Frank.

The barrel and trigger guard go into the watch pocket, which is a smaller pocket inside the main pants pocket. If I'm insulting your intelligence by explaining what a watch pocket is, you didn't get it the first time.

The watch pocket supports the weight of the gun and keeps the gun from pressing against the outer pocket or pants leg.

i.e. - little or no printing. I've done this and had friends try to guess if I had a gun on me and where. Each time I'd hide it in a different place, coat pocket, pants pocket inside watch pocket, in waist band, etc. Sometimes I would not have the gun at all, just to keep them guessing.

The watch pocket combined with slacks a bit loose is very effective. I look like a business man (which I am), not a baggy pants punk. I'm only talking about slightly baggy slacks, not gangsta pants. My friends rarely guess where the gun is. So it's effective.

You can only do this with dress slacks because only dress slacks have a real watch pocket that has some size, depth, etc. The watch pockets they put in jeans are fakes.

Dress slacks with a watch pocket my man. Being dressed up a bit (combined with a nice polo shirt) makes people not see you as a threat and they are less likely to eye ball you for a weapon in the first place. Being clean cut and well dressed can help you stay under the radar, unless of course there are muggers around, in which case looking successful and harmless might attract them.

Looking professional and business-like certainly helps me get along with cops, not to mention that I look good and keep up appearances for business.

 

[wbond]

To Jeff Trim:

Yes. A pocket within a pocket. The gun in the inner pocket. That is exactly what my Claiborne slacks from Meier and Frank do with their large inner watch pocket.

The gun is in the inner watch pocket, not the outer pocket. Plus I look damn good too.

As for your idea of using a soft holster like an Uncle Mikes as an inner pocket, I've thought of doing that in my coat pocket to make a padded inner pocket. I'd sew the Uncle Mikes Holster in place to the inner side of the coat pocket.

My Claiborn slacks are already giving me that effect from the large inner watch pocket, though without the benefit of padding.