POF consensus?

[esheato]

Heard lots of good things but never had the chance to shoot one. Never even seen one in person.

What experiences or information do you have on them?

One of their promo videos on Youtube.

Thanks,

Ed

 

[MCMXI]

I have a P415 and a P308 and they're both accurate and reliable rifles. I use the P415 for 2-gun matches and I have nothing but good things to say about it after thousands of trouble free rounds. I have TUBB CS flat wire buffer springs in both, an H buffer in the P415 and a DPMS AR308 buffer in the P308 (with MAGPUL PRS). These combinations along with MAGPUL magazines result in 100% reliable feeding and ejection. I don't have any problems with accuracy or carrier tilt. Here's a short video showing some friends and fellow competitors "having a go" with my P415 after a couple of matches. The P415 is one of my favorite rifles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruJBtSLv16U

I've decided to keep the Aimpoint M4s on the P415 for 2-gun and HD use. I can mount more powerful optics to work up loads or throw on the Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x for a "long range" match. The Aimpoint is co-witnessed with the TROY BUIS that I've used with great success in a match and it's so much faster to get on target with the M4s compared to the Leupold.

 

[Unistat]

I have a P308 that I like very much. I bought it last winter, so I haven't had a chance to put it through its paces yet, but for the little bit I've been able to do, it is pretty sweet.

 

[esheato]

Thanks fellas. Do you really feel the improvements are noticeable? Gas system better? Cleaner? Doubletaps any faster?

They're certainly more expensive than your standard AR, so I guess what I'm getting at is, are the benefits worth the cost?

 

[MCMXI]

Thanks fellas. Do you really feel the improvements are noticeable? Gas system better? Cleaner? Doubletaps any faster?

They're certainly more expensive than your standard AR, so I guess what I'm getting at is, are the benefits worth the cost?

I've said this before but the POF ARs aren't just about the short stroke piston system. POF's objective was to make a reliable and accurate AR that will run without any lubrication and I think they achieved this goal by building a system around the gas piston. When you consider the cost of a POF, don't forget that they use a billet lower with an integral and oversized trigger guard. The rifles are truly ambidextrous with bolt and magazine releases on both sides which is a significant upgrade when compared to adding "gadgets" to improve function. The Rock Creek barrels are match grade, fluted and coated inside and out and easily capable of sub moa performance. Many of the parts are either coated with NP3 or some other Teflon product.

In terms of how clean the gas system is, I used to wipe the BCG down with CLP after every use, but these days, I don't do anything to the internals, not even the barrel, even after a few thousand rounds. I shot 500+ rounds one weekend and when I removed the BCG it was pristine. The oil on the BCG was clear and clean much to the amazement of some other shooters. So these days, the only maintenance I do is to spray the piston and op rod with Hornady dry lube from time to time to prevent carbon from building up on those parts. I do this to reduce cleaning since the piston and 1/3 of the op rod (nearest the piston) get exposed to plenty of carbon. I haven't had any problems with heat at the gas block even after shooting 60 rounds in a couple of minutes. The gas block gets hot but the DD rail stays cool.

Accurate double taps are no different for the POF compared to any other AR. The trigger reset and shooter ability are more important than the name on the rifle.

So the question is would I buy a POF again knowing what I know now. A P415 ... absolutely no doubt that I would buy one again, particularly since I use it a lot and know how to set it up to make it perform flawlessly. I would try to find another like mine with the integral rail rather than the M.R.R. which I don't care for. Would I buy a P308 again .... maybe not. Not because of the quality, but simply because I don't use it for anything except paper punching and I'll probably never use it for 2 or 3-gun matches or to push back an approaching mob from a rooftop. Kind of a waste of $2,500 in many ways given that I have an FAL PARA and M1A Scout, both of which are more useful for 3-gun (FAL) and hunting (M1A).

 

[Jerk]

1858,
I have been debating on picking up a P415. This information will help me make that decision. Thanks.

 

[Tirod]

I have to point out, if they were 100% reliable, why change out any of the springs or buffers?

There's plenty of examples of DI rifles going 50,000 rounds with little to NO cleaning, and they only get parts like extractors replaced. Why aren't they considered reliable? They are being shot without modifications or alterations.

If someone chooses to add another piston to a design that already had one, that's their business. I find it difficult to accept they couldn't have spent the money and bought a better grade DI gun. I do know for a fact DI guns work fine in competition and on the battlefield, and can be equally reliable.

In reality, guns are chosen as tools, defined by the task at hand. Caliber, barrel length, optics mounting, and furniture are more important than choosing to move the piston from one end to the other. If none of the first meet the need, piston location can't make up the difference. If anything, the amount of time someone can dedicate to effective practice, along with affordable logistics to support it, has a lot more to do with success.

It's not the gun, it's the shooter. Good shooters win matches, which type gun they used is almost irrelevant. They can even make using a AK seem easy. A poor shooter can't even qualify with a $2,500 gun. Worry about moving the piston when skill level is so finely tuned the operating characteristic is what is understood to be an answer.

 

[valnar]

I have not shot one yet, but every review I've read about the long-stroke piston PWS offerings is stellar. It's on my short list.

It's not just about cleaning or not cleaning it, or how long you can go without cleaning it. It's about, when it IS time to clean it, how much easier it is. To me, that is worth the extra $$. YMMV.

 

[LoadedDrum]

My only experience was with the 5.56 version. I found it to be very muzzle heavy before they added the heat sink barrel nut. Keep in mind this was with the carbine length Predator rail. I cannot imagine what a full length rail modern version feels like.

That said, there are numerous people on the XCRforum who swear by the POF 308 and I am inclined to trust them.