Police burst into your home

[M-Rex]

More than 12 armed men?

I'd sit tight and make a note of all that happened. Then I would sue for every penny I could, and I would sue for a personal apology from everyone involved, just to humiliate them.

I don't know about CT, but here I'd win that suit.

Unless, of course, the cops all closed rank and lied for each other. Which they probably would, and again I don't get that idea from the movies.

Well...the first part of your post was lucid, at least.

Pray tell...

...where do you get this 'idea' from exactly? Do you have copies of any General Orders manuals that state, "In the event of <event>, make sure you close ranks and lie."

You seem to be a virtual wellspring of cop-hatred. I'd love to hear, or see, your sources. You make a lot of claims that you have been witness to all sorts of 'bad cop' activity, yet you are interestingly either unable, or unwilling to provide any actual sources.

 

[Huntzman]

Searches

1. The original statement says that it was state & local police which means probably some type of joint task force (and they usually have a ton of supervision).

2. I'm guessing we are talking about some type of adult movie industry, so this wasn't a home based Bible literature business. (Fill in the violations of whatever laws are applicable in CT).

In twenty years of law enforcement I have engaged in my fair share of search warrants and not once was a subject / defendant denied his right to see the warrant and receive a copy, along with an itemized list of items removed. Simply put, it was their right and I was not going to, nor allow any of my cops, to screwup a good seizure. It's hard enough to get it admitted when things go right, the last thing I wanted to do was make a lawyers job easier !!! That being said, I have heard many a defendant claim that they were never shown one......... I know, I know....a criminal who lies, shocking !!!....

I have posted this comment before, but it bears repeating..... people, just because they put on a uniform, doesn't make them less human. Just as you have doctors, lawyers, judges, and electricians (etc., etc., etc.) who are scummy, you will find a cop who is the same way. We recruit from society, not from Mars. That being said, if you think that engaging an entry team is a smart idea, tell Jesus I said hello !!

If these subjects / defendants were actually treated this way, trust me their lawyer will enjoy the payday. I did notice that they asked to call their lawyer..... I still don't have one to call after all these years. Must have done something right in my life But the posts that recommend sitting back and smiling are the ones that are right on target. I'd rather sit back and count my lawsuit money, then share a cell with (fill in the local jail name) for 25 - Life.

IMHO,
Andrew

 

[epijunkie67]

The problem I see with most of these comments is that all this great money you're going to win in court depends on you proving your alligations. They didn't show you the warrent? "Your Honor, both I and officer Smith stood by and allowed Mr Epijunkie to read the warrent. He said he didn't need to keep a copy we offered him." Wow, and 19 of the other officers remember you standing in the living room reading it too.

"While we had to repeatedly prevent him from interfering in the search we decided to be nice and not arrest him giving the upsetting nature of this kind of search. We even went out of our way to be polite and repectful at all times your Honor. And for this we get sued and accused of these awful things. Isn't that right you guys?"

30 guys all nod their head and mummble about how hard it is to get a fair shake as a hard working cop.

"Case dismissed!"

Unless a couple of the officers involved are willing to break ranks and testify against their own kind you aren't going to have any proof. And they aren't going to allow you to collect any during the search. Then it's just your word against 30 guys who are a part of the system.

 

[Cosmoline]

Unless a couple of the officers involved are willing to break ranks and testify against their own kind you aren't going to have any proof. And they aren't going to allow you to collect any during the search. Then it's just your word against 30 guys who are a part of the system.

Thus the need for video tape. Unless they place you under arrest they have NO RIGHT to prevent you from filming a search of your house so long as you don't interfere with their search. Do it! Let them beat you down if they dare. They'll lose their jobs and their houses. 1983 liability isn't just against the state, it's DIRECTLY AGAINST THE OFFICERS INVOLVED.

 

[M-Rex]

Excellent post, Huntzman!

 

[M-Rex]

The problem I see with most of these comments is that all this great money you're going to win in court depends on you proving your alligations. They didn't show you the warrent? "Your Honor, both I and officer Smith stood by and allowed Mr Epijunkie to read the warrent. He said he didn't need to keep a copy we offered him." Wow, and 19 of the other officers remember you standing in the living room reading it too.

"While we had to repeatedly prevent him from interfering in the search we decided to be nice and not arrest him giving the upsetting nature of this kind of search. We even went out of our way to be polite and repectful at all times your Honor. And for this we get sued and accused of these awful things. Isn't that right you guys?"

30 guys all nod their head and mummble about how hard it is to get a fair shake as a hard working cop.

"Case dismissed!"

Unless a couple of the officers involved are willing to break ranks and testify against their own kind you aren't going to have any proof. And they aren't going to allow you to collect any during the search. Then it's just your word against 30 guys who are a part of the system.

*emphasis mine.

I am sitting here marveling at the quality of posters on this thread.

Why is it that you automatically assume that the 'cops' will lie? Furthermore, what makes you believe that the original poster wasn't lying to make himself appear more innocent?

Why do you presume that the 'criminal' always tells the truth and the 'cop' always lies, lies, and lies some more?

Am I the only one that sees this? Really?

Seriously, where did you people get so poisoned?

 

[Cosmoline]

I've had some good experiences with cops and some bad ones. But when they kick in your door, the time to make friends is clearly over. YOU ARE THE TARGET. To them you are the ENEMY. They will do everything in their power to destroy your life. That's the way the system works. Do not expect balance or fair conduct. While it's illegal for YOU to lie to THEM, they can lie to you with impunity, and they will. And if they refuse to show you the search warrant or even let you call your lawyer, all the alarm bells in your head should be going off. Get some evidence of what's happening, even if it costs you some teeth. Demand to know if you are under arrest. Object formally to the search in clear English. Do it ON TAPE. If you slumber on your rights you'll loose them. For all you know they'll claim you consented to the search later on. Assume they will.

 

[Alex45ACP]

Anyone can dress up in a police uniform and yell "police!" while they kick down your front door.

If this happened you'd have no way of knowing if they're real cops.

I am not involved in any activities that would warrant a visit from the police, so I would shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[mmike87]

"Excuse me, officer. But, do you own your home? Do you have any other assets that I should know about?"

Then, while they are there, pull out the pamphlet for that cruise you've been putting off.

 

[M-Rex]

I've had some good experiences with cops and some bad ones. But when they kick in your door, the time to make friends is clearly over. YOU ARE THE TARGET. To them you are the ENEMY. They will do everything in their power to destroy your life. That's the way the system works. Do not expect balance or fair conduct. While it's illegal for YOU to lie to THEM, they can lie to you with impunity.

I pity you. I truly do. You seemed like a decent fellow, but your post above leads me to believe your mind has been poisoned beyond the ability to logically reason.

'The system', as you say, does not work that way at all. Not even in the slightest.

IF what the original poster stated was true, and IF he was sitting there minding his own business, and IF he actually asked to see the warrant, and IF none of the officers showed it to him, and IF they intimidated him as he described, they would be terminated. Period. End of story.

Furthermore, they would be brought up on civil rights violations, and the department administration would hang them out to dry. They would receive no support from the higher-ups. THAT is the reality of 'the system'. Not to mention any state statutes that were violated, as well as departmental policy.

They'd be done. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

I truly don't understand you people or where you get this hate. I truly don't.

 

[mmike87]

Anyone can dress up in a police uniform and yell "police!" while they kick down your front door.

If this happened you'd have no way of knowing if they're real cops.

I am not involved in any activities that would warrant a visit from the police, so I would shoot first and ask questions later.

I can't say I'd do that ... but if the circumstances were as you described and you DID I'd certainly support your right to do so.

The presentation of the warrant is YOUR assurance that the search is legal and sanctioned by a judge. If they refuse to show it to you, it's safe to assume they either don't have one or are not really police officers.

I'd LOVE to sit on that jury. Can you say "jury nullification"?

 

[M-Rex]

I can't say I'd do that ... but if the circumstances were as you described and you DID I'd certainly support your right to do so.

The presentation of the warrant is YOUR assurance that the search is legal and sanctioned by a judge. If they refuse to show it to you, it's safe to assume they either don't have one or are not really police officers.

I'd LOVE to sit on that jury. Can you say "jury nullification"?

If (keyword IF) the story is actually true, and they did this without a warrant, they deserve every bit of ire they stir up. I have no sympathy for them.

 

[grizz5675]

so these poor people had their rights steped on ,is that what your saying these law abiding citizens,what were they making ,films for the perverted twisted sexual deviates looking for a thrill.It may have been a film just like one of these that pushed the last rapist -murderer over the top.Good ridence i say and a job well done by the police.They dont always report both sides to a story and when somone commits a crime everything connected to that crime can be confiscated,that means if any little thing is illegal in what they were doing in that house then they can confiscate anything including possibly the whole house.

 

[Old Dog]

I am not involved in any activities that would warrant a visit from the police, so I would shoot first and ask questions later.

Good luck with that.

'Course, I'm thinking if the team was any good, you'd be in flex-cuffs, ears ringing from the flash-bang, facedown and suckin' up the dustmites from your carpet before you even had time to realize it wasn't the Domino's guy at your door ...

But when they kick in your door, the time to make friends is clearly over. YOU ARE THE TARGET. To them you are the ENEMY. They will do everything in their power to destroy your life. That's the way the system works. Do not expect balance or fair conduct. While it's illegal for YOU to lie to THEM, they can lie to you with impunity.

One would almost get the feeling that you don't believe any law enforcement agency could, or would, ever admit a mistake, much less hold those responsible for an erroneous raid accountable ... Now have you personally had that experience, or is it simply unreasoning prejudice against law enforcement in general?

 

[magyvor]

Sounds like BS..........

First of all, I have, in my youth, been at the wrong place at the wrong time, doing things I shouldnt have been, and was at the receiving end of a break your door down search warrant.

For all you that have stated to fight back, get a camera, video tape it..........are you people for real?

What you are going to do is exactly what the 30 people with guns tell you to do......and feel lucky if your not thrown to the ground and cuffed.

So here is the problem I have with this whole thing........

1. 30 cops?...thats sounds wrong to me, or was it 12? .....10 would be alot of people to serve a search warrant for a non-violent crime. Porn movies might have moral or legal issues, but its not drug dealing...so you would think they werent expecting armed resistence when serving the warrant.

2. They shot the dog?---again sounds kind iffy.

3. Wouldnt show the warrant? Thats like a guarantee to lose...and if so many cops were there, someone would have made sure the "Bust" was going to be good.

4. Wouldnt let them call a lawyer......that doesnt make sense, its not like you couldnt call the minute they walked out the door.

The whole story seems bogus to me.

That being said, If I had a porn business, all legal with all permits necessary etc. and Cops showed up to my house and did these things....then everyone who stated that you sit back, be polite, and contact a lawyer when all is said and done are correct.

Im sure I will get flamed....but its BS like this that cloud real issues of injustice when it happens. Cry wolf type thing.

 

[HighVelocity]

I would like to see what the police report says. I bet it's a lot different.

 

[epijunkie67]

Don't get me wrong here. I knew when I posted it that my last post would be taken as "anti-cop" by some people and it wasn't intended that way. I have known several cops in my day and most of them are honest hard working people. But in the end they are people, not some special breed uneffected by error, corruption, or all the other emotions and drives that people have.

In the story given you have to make one of two assumptions.

1. Everything they said is true. In this case the cops are probably the kind of people who are going to lie to cover their butt. They are also probably the kind of people you don't want serving a search warrent.

2. The story is a load of hooey. The cops probably did just what they were supposed to do and these people just aren't happy about it.

The point of my post was to point out that if you are unlucky enough to encounter the kind of cops from example #1 you aren't likely to be able to film all this proof you're going to have to have in this case. If, and note that is an IF, this is a group of guys with badges that collectively decide to cover for each other then as soon as you pull out the camera they're going to take it away from you, bust you in the &%$ and the arrest record is going to show you violently attacked a peaceful officer during the performance of a lawful search.

I'm not saying this happens all the time. I'm not saying it's common. But in any system there are going to be people willing to lie so they can get their way. Military, cops, private business, doesn't matter. That's the whole reason we practice so much CYA in this society now, to try and prevent this.

 

[Alex45ACP]

Good luck with that.

'Course, I'm thinking if the team was any good, you'd be in flex-cuffs, ears ringing from the flash-bang, facedown and suckin' up the dustmites from your carpet before you even had time to realize it wasn't the Domino's guy at your door ...

Nope. With my "perimeter defenses", I'll realize they're coming long before they actually make it inside, and there will be more than 1 armed person they'll have to contend with. I'll take at least one with me

 

[AndrewM]

YOU ARE THE TARGET. To them you are the ENEMY.

Correct, because if they treated every suspect as their best friend a lot more of them wouldn't make it home every night.

They will do everything in their power to destroy your life.

Oh please. That's right, a bunch of guys who work high-stress jobs, are under-paid will have nothing beter to do.

That's the way the system works.

It would be a very good idea for you to get more familiar with the system.

Do not expect balance or fair conduct.

Don't know why you expect it, that's for the court room, not the PD.

While it's illegal for YOU to lie to THEM, they can lie to you with impunity, and they will.

Which law is it that says it's illegal to lie to a LEO, please provide some statutes. Make sure the laws you cite aren't talking about lying under oath.

Im sure I will get flamed....but its BS like this that cloud real issues of injustice when it happens. Cry wolf type thing.

Your disection of the story sounds about right to me.

'Course, I'm thinking if the team was any good, you'd be in flex-cuffs, ears ringing from the flash-bang, facedown and suckin' up the dustmites from your carpet before you even had time to realize it wasn't the Domino's guy at your door ...

Shhhh....you'll break some ego's by talking like that.

Andrew

 

[V4Vendetta]

I'd sue like crazy. Then depending on the outcome I'd go Josey Wales on em'.

 

[Lupinus]

2. I'm guessing we are talking about some type of adult movie industry, so this wasn't a home based Bible literature business. (Fill in the violations of whatever laws are applicable in CT).

Yes. BDSM related adult movies to be spacific. Nothing illegal and up to snuff.

I did notice that they asked to call their lawyer..... I still don't have one to call after all these years. Must have done something right in my life

People retain lawyers for any number of reasons. Just because they have a lawyer means they arn't leading a good life?

Thus the need for video tape. Unless they place you under arrest they have NO RIGHT to prevent you from filming a search of your house so long as you don't interfere with their search. Do it! Let them beat you down if they dare. They'll lose their jobs and their houses. 1983 liability isn't just against the state, it's DIRECTLY AGAINST THE OFFICERS INVOLVED.

Excelent, provided they let you and don't throw yo uto the ground saying you were being whatever.

I am not involved in any activities that would warrant a visit from the police, so I would shoot first and ask questions later.

Only one problem, they are police. Justified or not shooting police never ends well ***** or not.

IF what the original poster stated was true, and IF he was sitting there minding his own business, and IF he actually asked to see the warrant, and IF none of the officers showed it to him, and IF they intimidated him as he described, they would be terminated. Period. End of story.

Provided you can prove it

so these poor people had their rights steped on ,is that what your saying these law abiding citizens,what were they making ,films for the perverted twisted sexual deviates looking for a thrill.It may have been a film just like one of these that pushed the last rapist -murderer over the top.Good ridence i say and a job well done by the police.They dont always report both sides to a story and when somone commits a crime everything connected to that crime can be confiscated,that means if any little thing is illegal in what they were doing in that house then they can confiscate anything including possibly the whole house.

That is the most laughable piece of BS I have heard on this entire thread. Pushed a rapist over the edge? Gee I didn't know everyone who watched porn was a rapist. Thats the same BS logic used by gun anti's and is laughable. It's called the first ammendment. They have the right to produce any piece of nasty filthy dirty ruanchy porn then like. You don't have to watch it. You don't have to like it either. And you don't have the right to stop it because you think it is vial. I think gangsta rap is the most vial crap in the country. It promote violence greater then anything else shown to the public. If anything ban something that actually promotes violence, not something that someone uses for recreational purposes.

One would almost get the feeling that you don't believe any law enforcement agency could, or would, ever admit a mistake, much less hold those responsible for an erroneous raid accountable ... Now have you personally had that experience, or is it simply unreasoning prejudice against law enforcement in general?

Not agianst LEO, jsut stupid people in general that break down my door.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This story seems awfully bizarre. Too many things don't seem to jive. It has the makings for being folklore/urban myth. How so?

Not full story - only partial story presented
Edit Problems - story edited to remove adult-oriented material
source - source claimed to exist, but not provided. I googled several quoted sentences with unique words and was unable to find a match for the story. Given that it was supposedly in another online forum, a match should have been able to be made.
police presence - way too many officers. 30? Given the amount of over-crowding that would go on in a house less that 4K sq ft, officers would be tripping over one another during the search.
refusal of warrant or inventory taken - this isn't typical
Extremely expensive items taken - it was claimed the police were searching for a particular item and instead took many that were expensive.
Rude officers - no reason to be rude and certainly atypical.

So Lupinus, how about providing a link to the board where you found this story?

 

[ArmedBear]

Well...the first part of your post was lucid, at least.

Pray tell...

...where do you get this 'idea' from exactly? Do you have copies of any General Orders manuals that state, "In the event of <event>, make sure you close ranks and lie."

You seem to be a virtual wellspring of cop-hatred. I'd love to hear, or see, your sources. You make a lot of claims that you have been witness to all sorts of 'bad cop' activity, yet you are interestingly either unable, or unwilling to provide any actual sources.

I will not provide these sources. They're not sources; they're personal knowledge. I'm not looking to get anyone convicted; it would be impossible at this point. However, I trust my own eyes and people I've known personally, not some anonymous poster here. If I express my beliefs about what could happen in such a situation, based on what I know has happened, and pass on any warnings to others, that does not reflect on you at all, unless YOU believe it does.

I do not hate cops. Nor do I trust cops that I do not know any more than they trust me when I'm walking or driving down the road. I do not owe you anything whatsoever. Only you know what sort of person and what sort of cop you are. None of your posts have indicated much, and I have no idea who or what you really are, nor do I care at this point.

But in case you didn't notice, this thread was about a documented case of severe abuse by law enforcement officers, and was directed at civilians who are concerned about being victims, not cops who are paranoid that people hate them.

Finally, note that the Bill of Rights is mostly a long list of restrictions on the power of law enforcement. There is a good reason for this.

 

[Old Dog]

this thread was about a documented case of severe abuse by law enforcement officers,

Negative on that. Totally UNDOCUMENTED and allegedly taken from another internet forum to boot.

 

[ArmedBear]

Negative on that. Totally UNDOCUMENTED and allegedly taken from another internet forum to boot.

I stand corrected. And that is why I won't elaborate about anything, either. What I write would not be documented either.

The thread would, of course, be just as interesting if it took as its example a well-documented case, and they do exist.

If anyone, however, thinks that no LEO's have ever closed rank and protected each other when "things happened", then he was born yesterday.

Does that statement condemn all cops? Of course not. Only M-Rex has ever interpreted anything I've posted in that way.