Police burst into your home

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Double Naught Spy said:
Not full story - only partial story presented
Edit Problems - story edited to remove adult-oriented material
I gave the bulk of the story, you answered yourself why parts were not included. I'm not going to post on a public forum anyone of any age can join explicit names of things. If I say bdsm related, that is as far as I go, I'm not giving detailed names of kinky things where kids are likly to see it.

Double Naught Spy said:
source - source claimed to exist, but not provided. I googled several quoted sentences with unique words and was unable to find a match for the story. Given that it was supposedly in another online forum, a match should have been able to be made.
It is an adult forum which is part of a larger adult website. I'm not posting links to adult oriented websites. Esspecialy ones which deal with certian things. And if I did it would be pointless as you would have to join the site in order to view the forums to begin with.

Double Naught Spy said:
refusal of warrant or inventory taken - this isn't typical
Extremely expensive items taken - it was claimed the police were searching for a particular item and instead took many that were expensive.
Agreed out of the norm. But then agian so is breaking down someones door simply because they are making adult movies in their home, with the proper permits and such as well.

Double Naught Spy said:
Rude officers - no reason to be rude and certainly atypical.
You have never seen a rude officer? I've seen plenty.

Double Naught Spy said:
So Lupinus, how about providing a link to the board where you found this story?
I quoted the bulk of the story as told by the victem, suspect, whatever you would like to call her. You honestly expect a link to an adult oriented site on a public forum? Sorry not happening, I might have carried this story over here, but I edited out the explicit adult parts. I'm not posting a link so underage kids can visit the website. Also the purpsoe of the thread was for comments on what you would do in the situation, hence stratagy and tactics and not legal and political.
 
May I ask what people where smoking when they decide that searching a house when the people are in the house is a good idea. Why not wait until they are out in their car, arrest them, present the warrant, then go search the house. Is there any good reason (aside from ego) that police bust into houses the way they do when they know there are only 1 or 2 adults that live there?
 
Crosshair-
Is there any good reason to bust a door down period without knocking like a human being? Not really, common sense escapes a lot of people in the various legal/LE professions. Not all, but many.
 
M-Rex said:
I truly don't understand you people or where you get this hate. I truly don't.

When the cops have kicked in your door and are screaming at you, refusing to show you a warrant, that's the time to get the video camera out and prepare your suit. Do you disagree with this? Do you find it illogical?

Or is your position that such mistakes never happen, and that no police departs ever screw up and try to protect themselves form liability? Is it your position that police never lie to suspects?
 
AndrewM said:
It would be a very good idea for you to get more familiar with the system.

LOL. I'm an ATTORNEY! I know the system better than 99 out of 100 people. Law enforcement is built on lies and coercion. That's the only way it can function. And lies and coercion have their place. My point is simply that if you're on the BUSINESS END of this system, you should NEVER expect the police to be your friends. They are not. They are your enemy, and if things go badly they can destroy your life--which is exactly what a felony conviction will do. Never consent to a search, never agree to speak with them "informally," ALWAYS ask if you are under arrest or not. Videotape searches of your home. You are not allowed to use force or interfere, but you'd better guard your rights carefully or you'll LOSE them. NEVER expect the police or the ADA to cut you a square deal. That's not their job.

If they show up warrant in hand and start kicking in doors, it's safe to assume the S has HTF and you need to start worrying. Whether or not you think you did anything wrong is not the point. The only SAFE assumption you can make is that they will find something they can charge you with, or plant it. DO NOT TRUST THEM EVEN A LITTLE BIT! At that point they are not looking out for you at all.

It always amazes me how many IDIOTS are rotting in prison because they tried to be straight up with the cops while their sneaking friends manipulated the system and got slaps on the wrist. Or how many fools got busted because they caved in and consented to a search. IF A POLICEMAN ASKS YOU IF HE CAN DO SOMETHING, ALWAYS ALWAY ALWAYS SAY NO! If he has a right to do it, he doesn't have to ask you first.
 
Which law is it that says it's illegal to lie to a LEO, please provide some statutes. Make sure the laws you cite aren't talking about lying under oath.

You're not serious, are you? Giving false information to a peace officer is a crime in all 50 states. Now they're even allowed to arrest you for refusing to show ID.
 
Back on topic.....

Let me try and bring this back on topic:

1) Is this "home business or studio" in a nice lilly-white, family oriented neighborhood? The below article claims it was not about child porno but lets be realistic: an angry neighbor from a family oriented neighborhood finds out this is happening in their high property valued
neighborhood? A anonymous call about "suspected child pornography" to the authorities will bring this type of response.

This article is from a website for adult webmasters....whose attorney will be handling the case.
(www.ynot.com)


Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Police Raid Connecticut BDSM Website Owner’s Home
by Darklady

ENFIELD, CT – Michelle Silva thought that things were starting to settle down in her life. She was getting her finances in order and had found that selling home-made bondage videos through her website provided her with the economic independence she needed to accomplish her goals. She had her professional ducks in a row and was preparing for a successful and satisfying future.

In order to comply with all local laws, she possessed the appropriate business zoning permits. In order to comply with national 2257 regulations, she kept appropriate model documentation. Yet on the afternoon of Wednesday, November 16, she says that as many as 30 members of the Enfield Connecticut police force unexpectedly entered her home, repeatedly made derogatory comments about her lifestyle, and confiscated not only all of her computer and internet technology related possessions, but also every piece of bondage furniture and BDSM equipment likewise involved.

No arrests were made. So what happened?

“We can only speculate at this point,” her newly appointed attorney Daniel Silver told YNOT. “I know that they did not come in looking for child stuff – and there is no child stuff. The authorities admit that this is not a seizure for the purpose of child pornography.”

Could the seizure be related to an obscenity prosecution?

According to Silver, who was recommended to Silva by the Free Speech Coalition, there has not been an obscenity arrest in Connecticut in at least 20 years, which makes this situation all the more baffling.

Although the Enfield police department insists that it presented Silva with a search warrant, which would provide information about the reason for entering her home-based business, she insists that such is not the case. According to an email sent by Silva, the police insisted that they were “looking for something specific” and that they would present the warrant once that had been located.

Regardless of whether or not Silva was presented with a warrant, her attorney is clear about the fact that “at this point, I don’t have it. I have requested it and Ill get it, but needless to say, I’m not waiting for them to do that.”

Indeed Silver, a First Amendment attorney who exclusively represents members of the adult industry, says that “appropriate measures are in the process of being filed with the Superior Court in Connecticut seeking immediate return of all items seized.” As Silver explains, he views all confiscated items as “protected material,” which are covered by different laws from those concerning other forms of contraband.

Silver insists that nothing on Silva’s EmpressM.net website is unusual or extreme.

“I think the important thing is that it’s disturbing that in the state of Connecticut they would even bother with this type of situation because, as I indicated, there has not been an obscenity arrest in 20 years.”

Darklady is Assistant Editor at YNOT.
 
For people who think that:

A) Cops never make mistakes
B) Cops never go over the line

Given a little time, I could find numerous cases where honest people have had their doors kicked in and been shot (as in shot dead) by cops serving warrants. From the McDuffie case (Miami, early 80's) to the case of the club DJ from Pompano Beach, FL just a few months ago.

+1 for Cosmoline... In times like those, cops are definitely NOT your friends...
 
You're not serious, are you? Giving false information to a peace officer is a crime in all 50 states. Now they're even allowed to arrest you for refusing to show ID.

Given that you're an attorney and know 'the system' better than 99 out of 100 people, you should be able to provide us all with plenty of statutes and case law that shows this to us. Afterall I'll take the guess that some 99% of people convicted of a crime have lied to a LEO, you should be able to find millions of examples here.

LOL. I'm an ATTORNEY!

And? What type of law do you practice?

My point is simply that if you're on the BUSINESS END of this system, you should NEVER expect the police to be your friends. They are not. They are your enemy, and if things go badly they can destroy your life--which is exactly what a felony conviction will do.

Cops don't issue convictions, surely as an attorney you realize that. A cop has a job to do. There are good cops and there are bad cops, just like there are good and bad people in any profession.

Never consent to a search, never agree to speak with them "informally," ALWAYS ask if you are under arrest or not.

Sounds like common sense to me, knowing your rights is always important.

Videotape searches of your home. You are not allowed to use force or interfere, but you'd better guard your rights carefully or you'll LOSE them.

Lose them in being convicted of a crime in a court of law, or lose them because of some other reason?

NEVER expect the police or the ADA to cut you a square deal. That's not their job.

That's correct, it's not their job to give people breaks. One has the job of enforcing the law, the other has the job of convicting those who break the law.

If they show up warrant in hand and start kicking in doors, it's safe to assume the S has HTF and you need to start worrying. Whether or not you think you did anything wrong is not the point. The only SAFE assumption you can make is that they will find something they can charge you with, or plant it. DO NOT TRUST THEM EVEN A LITTLE BIT! At that point they are not looking out for you at all.

Why would you expect them to look out for you in the first place? And the whole planting thing? How many search warrants are issued every day in this country, do you think 'planting' evidence happens often or hardly at all?
 
Allow me to relate my experiences with police in NC. Some good. Some evil.

Good: A lot of deputy's come into my store to buy radio equipment. Some of the time they can tell me things the media doesn't.

Bad: A old friend of the family *allegedly* killed himself in his backyard because of marital troubles. I don't believe he would leave his 2 kids under 8 like that. For those of you who are wondering what his troubles were, here they are. His wife was a lying, lowdown, scummy, gold-diggen, *****, who cheated on him 8 TIMES! He threw her out of the house once, but his little 3 year old would cry & sit in the corner because he missed his *mama*. He didn't want his kid to be sad like that so he took her back, against me & my dad's advice. She was bi-polar & crazy. One time while visiting our friend, my dad was going to get himself a soda & asked if she wanted one out of politeness. She said "No thanks, that's sweet of you for asking." So he went, got his drink & came back. He didn't say a word to her & she just jumped up & started cussing him out. But back to main point about the cops. The police never even asked his parents if they saw or heard anything & they lived right across the street! I feel that the reason is because his dad was a commisioner who cut back on their reckless spending. He figures the sherriff doesn't need a new car every year at the expense of the tax payers when there wasn't anything wrong with the old one. I agree.

Mixed: One of my cousins is in jail for beating his infant son to death. However his wife is the real culprit. She's a witch & I mean a REAL witch. The satan worship & everything. There were bite marks on the body. They don't match my cousin's teeth. However they cops wouldn't arrest her because they don't want the bad PR that arresting a witch would bring. I can hear the Jesse Jacksons of the witch world now. "Just because we worship Satan on purpose doesn't mean that we are bad. The cops just want to blame a minority." That sticks in my gut. On the other hand he's doing real well in jail. He's enrolled in a prison school thing & is on the Honor Roll. He's got a degree now. I visited him & from the stories he tells me about life there, it's not at all like "Prison Break".

My conclusion: Some cops may mean well, but don't count on it. Most of the time cops are like lawyers, they are all out to shaft you.
 
Just to point out since the article has been posted-

What I quoted from was from an acount given by the owner.

CTMB590A1 said:
1) Is this "home business or studio" in a nice lilly-white, family oriented neighborhood? The below article claims it was not about child porno but lets be realistic: an angry neighbor from a family oriented neighborhood finds out this is happening in their high property valued neighborhood? A anonymous call about "suspected child pornography" to the authorities will bring this type of response.
True, but that doesn't make it right. And even if you are a child porn scumbag, if the only thing suggesting that is you shot porn in your house (with the right permits) and an angry neighbor that doesn't mean you shouldn't be treated like a human being in the serving of the warrent. There is no reason to play SWAT and bust down the door of everyone you have a search warrent for. Now that said if you have half naked people running around doing scenes in the back yard that's one thing. If not be a good neighbor and keep your trap shut since it isn't effecting you at all. Not sure if you were advocating what I quoted or not, but that is like saying in your little anti gun neighborhood giving a little call saying your neighbor is a murdurer because you find out they have guns in the house.

And +1 for cos and cee
 
My conclusion: Some cops may mean well, but don't count on it. Most of the time cops are like lawyers, they are all out to shaft you.

It all depends on the circumstances, if a LEO suspects you of a crime, somehow connected to a crime or anything along those lines, don't expect them to do anything other than their jobs, and most of them have a fairly broad range of things they can use/do in order to do their jobs, more than the general public grasps/understands.

And of course there are plenty of 'bad' cops out there as well, when you want to talk about LE as a whole, you're talking about tens/hundreds of thousands of people, there are going to be bad apples in the bunch.

Cops and as you mentioned lawyers are two of the most hated professions, until you need them on your side, then opinions change.
 
Get out the video camera and make sure you get their refusal to show you the warrant on tape.
Wouldn’t that be great, but I expect they would take the camera along with everything else. You’d have to have a second, hidden, camera recording events (including confiscation of your first camera), but you’d have no time to set it up if it wasn’t already.

You could still smile, though.
I like this. You could also start yelling, “Yeeee-Haawwww !!! I’m rich ! I’m rich !” :)

Well...the first part of your post was lucid, at least.

Pray tell...

...where do you get this 'idea' from exactly? Do you have copies of any General Orders manuals that state, "In the event of <event>, make sure you close ranks and lie."

You seem to be a virtual wellspring of cop-hatred.
No, not all cops; just the ones who would do an illegal home invasion.

Getting back to the original post. I guess there’s nothing to prevent you from releasing a few tear-gas grenades, activate a clanging fire alarm, and activate a strobe light with the rest of the house lights off. After, it’s your house.
 
I would suggest that everyone get behind this since it was a lawful business. Personally I don't care what people do behind closed doors when it comes to their sex lives maybe others do but this can really be stretched to busy body neighbors worrying about YOUR guns and YOUR reloading. You could be the next victim of an armed assault. I don't like discovery warrants that are blank. We should not either.

Silva, the police insisted that they were “looking for something specific” and that they would present the warrant once that had been located.

The police when they are conducting business and you are the target ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. To think otherwise is at your own peril.

This is the only piece of information of any use I ever found on the ACLU website.

• I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Sixth Amendment right to an attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my attorney present.
• I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make any comment to me about this decision.
• I invoke and refuse to waive my Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow me to leave.
• Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide you with information.
 
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Given that you're an attorney and know 'the system' better than 99 out of 100 people, you should be able to provide us all with plenty of statutes and case law that shows this to us. Afterall I'll take the guess that some 99% of people convicted of a crime have lied to a LEO, you should be able to find millions of examples here.

Type "false information" into google, sparky. Or just start giving LEO's false information about a crime and see what happens.

My conclusion: Some cops may mean well, but don't count on it. Most of the time cops are like lawyers, they are all out to shaft you.

Absolutely. They are NOT there to protect or serve *YOU*. They serve a vague "community" which may really just be the police community. Never trust them, never rely on them, never expect them to protect you or save you. YOU are responsible for yourself. The police are, at base, responsible for exercising and protecting the power of the state.
 
Yup, NEVER talk to a cop (unless you happen to have to report a crime for insurance purposes, or can offer direct immediate aid for something like a lost child).

In many cases these guys are just looking for something to do - 'occupational therapy'. It's probably worse in lower-crime suburban areas, as those activity reports need to fill up...

This text linked/quoted below here, while ever-so-slightly off-topic, relates to what to do if the BATF comes to your gunshop. Nevertheless it contains many pearls of wisdom for dealing with LEOs and search warrants in general - regardless of any firearms issues - and also deals w/division of labor and rights of entry/inspection matters of accompanying gov't employees who aren't sworn LEOs. I've attached the section called "The Raid" which is near the end of the article as it has lotsa info pertaining to general search warrant issues.

This article was written by Jim Jeffries, a former Fed lawyer and gunrights attorney who deals with lots of BATF issues.

Fortunately technology is going to be very helpful in the future. Low-cost home surveillance cameras can surreptitiously record many hours of encrypted, near-HD-quality video and quality audio in multiple areas in & around your home. Not only that, you can goad the LEOs into illegally seizing (stealing) what they think is the only copy of the information, while other cameras distribute the video of this theft to the internet ;)

I believe this is how some Oakland CA cops got burned investigating a Ms Field's robbery - they helped themselves to sodas & food (unpaid).


from http://www.gunowners.com/batf.htm:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEN THE BATF COMES A-CALLIN'

by James H. Jeffries, III

"There is no wholly satisfactory substitute for brains, but silence does pretty well." --Anonymous

Probably one of the least favorite events for any Federal Firearms Licensee (hereafter "FFL") is a visit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (hereafter "BATF"). This can occur in one of at least six very different ways and your legal rights and recommended responses vary accordingly.

For purposes of the following discussion I will assume that you are a law-abiding licensed dealer or collector who tries to comply honestly with the federal firearms laws. If some of the discussion below seems excessively cautious, or even hostile to BATF, it is based on real world experience with an agency which has been found by Congress, by various federal judges and juries, by other federal and local law enforcement agencies, and even by some Presidents to be inept, indifferent to citizens' rights, and capable of the most outrageous abuses of the law.

BATF operates under the rationale of requiring you to comply with the law. I operate under the rationale of requiring BATF to comply with the law. I required this of BATF as a federal prosecutor for almost 30 years, and I require it as a private citizen and as a lawyer. You should require it as an FFL.

A non-licensee has no legal duty whatsoever to talk to or otherwise cooperate with a BATF agent (or any other governmental official). It is a sad commentary on our times and the state of our federal government (and especially BATF) that the appropriate legal advice from a defense lawyer to a non-licensee confronted by a federal or state law enforcement officer can be capsulized in a single sentence called RULE ONE: Silence is golden; or what part of "no" don't you understand? If you are an FFL, however, additional considerations come into play.
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When faced with the prospect of providing information to the government, keep in mind that there are only two legal options: silence or complete truthfulness. Lying (even by partial truths or literal but misleading true answers) is never an option. A false statement to a federal officer in his official capacity is a felony akin to perjury, and usually much easier to prosecute and prove than the matter being investigated. If you cannot speak truthfully without incriminating yourself or injuring your legal interests, then remember RULE ONE.
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Occasionally a tracing inquiry will be made in person by one or more special agents. They are, of course, purely criminal investigators whose only function (and interest) is to put people (including firearms dealers) in jail. Write down the names and badge numbers of all present. If anyone present is not a BATF special agent, inquire why that person is present (and later note the response in writing). If there is more than one agent, inquire why. If anyone refuses to display official identification direct them to immediately leave the premises. If they refuse, call the local sheriff or police and make a trespassing complaint.
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Remember, refusing to talk to federal criminal investigators and seeking legal counsel are not admissions of guilt or signs of a guilty conscience. They are manifestations that you are an American citizen aware of your legal rights and an individual who will not be bullied, coerced or frightened into giving up those rights. The agents already believe you are guilty; their job is to prove it. Your job is to avoid helping them prove it.
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Some of my bolder clients, who are truly tired of being harassed this way [[undercover illegal solicitation]], are fully prepared to make a citizen's arrest in such circumstances and then call the local sheriff to come collect the offender (attempts and solicitations to commit an offense are also crimes under federal and state law). If this appeals to you, make sure first that the law of your state permits a citizen's arrest. Know the amount of legal force you can use to effect such an arrest. Then cuff the son of a bitch and give him a taste of what he's probably trying to do to you.
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When a BATF inspector shows up for a compliance inspection, require credentials to be displayed by everyone present and note the full name of the inspector(s) in writing. Never permit a special agent or a state or local or non-BATF federal official to participate in a compliance inspection. These individuals have no authority under the inspection laws, and are there for some different (and more ominous) reason. A state official might have independent state-law authority to conduct an inspection or investigation, but he has no right to do it in tandem with a BATF compliance inspection. You should require other inspectors or investigators to get in line so that you can deal with them at a separate time. If they refuse to leave, call the sheriff and swear out a trespassing complaint. If a BATF special agent, a firearms specialist from BATF's Technology Branch in Washington (part of the criminal enforcement branch), or other criminal law enforcement type is present, this is not an ordinary compliance inspection and you should immediately terminate it, direct the individuals to leave and contact legal counsel.
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The simple truth is that you never want a BATF employee in your home if it can be avoided.
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The Raid

This is an event which means you are in deep, serious. It is the execution of a judicially-issued search and seizure warrant (and occasionally also an arrest warrant) by BATF special agents, frequently accompanied by agents of other federal or local agencies, on premises owned, occupied or inhabited by you.

When a raid team shows up at your premises and announces (usually by breaking down your door, sometimes by killing your dogs and throwing flash bang grenades at your women and children) that they have a federal search warrant, you must instantly do several things. You must first of all mentally assimilate the fact that they are law officers rather than a rampaging motorcycle gang (which they often resemble in both appearance and behavior). Having identified them as law rather than outlaw, you must freeze in place in a non-threatening posture and attempt to stabilize the situation until some of their law-enforcement adrenalin (the most dangerous drug on the street) has bled off. If only a search warrant is involved, you must then recover your wits sufficiently to do the following:

(A) Try to note and record the identities of as many participants as possible, by name, agency, badge number, and physical description.
(B) Ask for a copy of the warrant.
(C) Disable -- not unplug, disable -- your telephones and fax machines.
(D) Gather your family, children and pets and leave the premises.
(E) Call your lawyer.
You may be prevented from doing some or all of the above things by legally illiterate agents, but that will simply lay the foundation for your own day in court.

A federal search warrant authorizes only the search of a specified premises and only the seizure of specifically described items. Corollary to the execution of a warrant, the law permits the agents to make a forcible entry if that becomes necessary after knocking and announcing their identity and purpose, to control the premises, and to take reasonable precautions for their own safety -- such as a pat down for weapons of those persons present and assigning an agent to watch over and accompany anyone moving about on the premises. The law authorizes the agents to prevent the destruction of evidence or contraband and it protects them against being assaulted or interfered with. It is a serious federal crime to assault a federal officer or to obstruct execution of the warrant. Don't turn a possible later indictment into a sure one. Never assist the raiding party in locating the items described in the warrant. They have the right to search, but not the right to find. Do not open locked compartments, safes or rooms for them or provide them with keys or combinations. Do not talk to the raiding officers other than to request identification and a copy of the warrant. Resist the compulsion to show what a good guy you are; these are not your friends and they are not there to help you.

A search warrant does not authorize agents to arrest you or anyone else on the premises (although assaulting the agents or forcibly interfering with the execution of the warrant will justify a warrantless arrest) and it does not authorize them to handcuff you, restrict you to a particular place or prevent you from leaving.

You have a perfect right to leave the premises and should do so immediately. If you are physically prevented from leaving, you have just been falsely arrested in violation of the Fourth Amendment and will have your recovery later in court as well as taking some of the other retaliatory measures promised above. You must get yourself and your family out of the house for several reasons:

(A) to avoid the personal insult, humiliation, provocation and indignities which many agents seem to enjoy;
(B) to avoid a potential life-threatening situation; and
(C) to avoid creating evidence against yourself (RULE ONE). There is no useful purpose your remaining on the premises can serve; if the agents are going to plant evidence or destroy property, they will do it whether or not you are present.
You will need as much information about identities, badge numbers and descriptions as you can manage in the minutes before you leave. These will be useful later when you assert or defend your rights. But they are not a reason to delay leaving the premises promptly. You are legally entitled to a copy of the warrant, but do not remain on the premises if you are refused.

You should disable your telephones and fax machines before leaving in order to prevent the agents from illegally seizing evidence (calls and faxes) which might come in while they are on the premises. Such items did not exist when the warrant was signed and cannot possibly be covered by the warrant. Their seizure will probably therefore be illegal; but it is better to prevent such seizures from even happening. If you are physically prevented from disabling your own property, go somewhere else and place incoming calls to all your lines and keep the circuits open.

Now, call your lawyer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------The author is a retired U.S. Department of Justice lawyer and a retired colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve practicing firearms law in Greensboro, NC. He is a 1959 graduate of the University of Kentucky and a 1962 graduate of the UK College of Law, where he was Note Editor of the Kentucky Law Journal.
 
What is with the use of the word "hate", BTW?

Because I jealously guard my rights, I "hate cops"?

Sorry, but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, not ceding one's freedom to the police.
 
Type "false information" into google, sparky. Or just start giving LEO's false information about a crime and see what happens.

So now you're expanding your statement to "lying about a crime"? In which case I agree 100%, it is illegal to make a false statement, it's illegal to 'impede' an investigation, etc, etc. That's a bit different than a wholesome "lie to a leo" that you first said, semantics maybe, but as a lawyer I'm sure you're aware of the importance of details like that.

Oh, and next time you want to tell somebody to go look up some information, it would be a good idea to actually do it yourself first, since I have yet to find a link that talks about all these laws.

And, sparky? Cute, if you want to start calling each other names now we can certainly do so.

Andrew
 
"Motorcycle gangs..."!!?? Bah! We prefer to call them 'Clubs'.:)
Biker
 
AndrewM said:
So now you're expanding your statement to "lying about a crime"? In which case I agree 100%, it is illegal to make a false statement, it's illegal to 'impede' an investigation, etc, etc. That's a bit different than a wholesome "lie to a leo" that you first said, semantics maybe, but as a lawyer I'm sure you're aware of the importance of details like that.

Hindering investigation, obstruction of justice, etc. are readily chargeable when dealing w/lying to LEO.

You might not get charged if you insist you like broccoli and that the sky is pink, but lying about anything remotely material to an investigation and that possibly might change course of investigation depending on what you said could well result in such charges.

Ask Martha Stewart.
 
billwiese said:
Hindering investigation, obstruction of justice, etc. are readily chargeable when dealing w/lying to LEO.

You might not get charged if you insist you like broccoli and that the sky is pink, but lying about anything remotely material to an investigation and that possibly might change course of investigation depending on what you said could well result in such charges.

Ask Martha Stewart.

...and Scooter Libby.

Hey, what IS the best way to avoid giving any information while staying out of trouble? I can imagine times when that would be my preference. (e.g. A lot of my neighbors smoke pot. I don't, but my personal beliefs about freedom preclude me from giving any information that would lead to their arrest for this victimless, volutary activity.)
 
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