Police taser, shoot, kill Marine home from Iraq.
- Thread starter Blackfork
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
As tragic as this is, and as much as I appreciate his service to his country, we might need to take a look at the other side of the story...though like most other news reports...we probably don't have all the facts, and likely never really will unless we attend the court action.
The Pagans have long had a reputation for being one of the more violent bike clubs around. I can't speak for the chapter in question, but the one that was in this area for a while was a pretty bad bunch. They made the local Hell's Angels seem like choir boys by comparison...and I was personally aquainted with members from both organizations in non-club venues.
If the guy was a member, or even closely associated with them, he fell under the same cautions that applied to the rest of the membership. i.e. "Armed and Dangerous" with the resulting unwillingness to take any chances with him.
This is in no way an attempt to place blame on the dead man or on his affiliations with the Pagans, nor is it an attempt to exonerate the actions of the police officer. Simply a statement to remind one and all of the old axiom: "If you lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas."
As tragic as this is, and as much as I appreciate his service to his country, we might need to take a look at the other side of the story...though like most other news reports...we probably don't have all the facts, and likely never really will unless we attend the court action.
The Pagans have long had a reputation for being one of the more violent bike clubs around. I can't speak for the chapter in question, but the one that was in this area for a while was a pretty bad bunch. They made the local Hell's Angels seem like choir boys by comparison...and I was personally aquainted with members from both organizations in non-club venues.
If the guy was a member, or even closely associated with them, he fell under the same cautions that applied to the rest of the membership. i.e. "Armed and Dangerous" with the resulting unwillingness to take any chances with him.
This is in no way an attempt to place blame on the dead man or on his affiliations with the Pagans, nor is it an attempt to exonerate the actions of the police officer. Simply a statement to remind one and all of the old axiom: "If you lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas."
ProjectMayhem
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It sounds as if they tasered him and then shot him. I'm not sure how much of a threat he appeared to pose AFTER the tasering (aren't tasers, you know, an excuse NOT to shoot people?) but it seems as if something happened to generate a response of deadly force from the officers. I'd like to think that most our police force doesn't go about incapacitating and sanctioning as they see fit. I would hope there is more to the story, although I am a far cry from any sort of cop apologist.
Sadly, that is the way many in LE see things.
It does not matter much what organization he belongs to, or the rep of that organization. IMO, he deserves to be treated fairly by LE. But these days "officer safety" being the only criteria that matters, the "shoot first ask questions later" attitude is becoming prevalent.
This is not about the war on drugs or the war on terror, or any other war. It is about citizens who have abrogated their responsibility to take righteous vengeance on their elected officials at the ballot box when they allow these kind of things to happen.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
Quote:
>It sounds as if they tasered him and then shot him. I'm not sure how much of a threat he appeared to pose AFTER the tasering (aren't tasers, you know, an excuse NOT to shoot people?) but it seems as if something happened to generate a response of deadly force from the officers.<
**************
Exactly. Even though the Taser has a good track record, it has been known to fail to produce any visible reaction at all. I watched a hospital security guard repeatedly zap a combative patient in the ER with a stun-gun...and the guy finally got tired of being lit up...turned on the guard...took the device away from him...and stomped it to smithereens. He had been brought in by the police after he was maced with pepper spray...and he had injured two of them AFTER being sprayed.
We don't have the facts.
Quote:
>It sounds as if they tasered him and then shot him. I'm not sure how much of a threat he appeared to pose AFTER the tasering (aren't tasers, you know, an excuse NOT to shoot people?) but it seems as if something happened to generate a response of deadly force from the officers.<
**************
Exactly. Even though the Taser has a good track record, it has been known to fail to produce any visible reaction at all. I watched a hospital security guard repeatedly zap a combative patient in the ER with a stun-gun...and the guy finally got tired of being lit up...turned on the guard...took the device away from him...and stomped it to smithereens. He had been brought in by the police after he was maced with pepper spray...and he had injured two of them AFTER being sprayed.
We don't have the facts.
ProjectMayhem
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Given that the story often doesn't come out until much later, and that it happens one incident at a time, I think you'll find that 'righteous vengeance' a bit slow in coming.
Eventually, of course, people's digust will overcome their apathy...but in the meantime everyone just grumbles and goes on with their lives.
Eventually, of course, people's digust will overcome their apathy...but in the meantime everyone just grumbles and goes on with their lives.
JohnBT
Member
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=234596&highlight=Derek+Hale
4 pages of posts from last year. Hash and rehash.
John
4 pages of posts from last year. Hash and rehash.
John
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
DMF: From the article, "The witnesses said Hale shook violently from the charge, as if sitting on an electric chair. His right hand came out of the front of his sweat shirt and was shaking violently.
Seconds later, police repeated their command for Hale to show them his hands, and they Tasered him a second time."
Vairochana, third paragraph: "...a Wilmington police officer fired three .40-caliber rounds into his chest."
But like all these threads, it's mostly "Yes I did!" "No you didn't!" Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
And I'm fed up with it. There're over a milion cops in the US. I'm happy to assume that only one percent are evil and bad nasty. You do the math (Hint: 1,000,000 x 0.01 and then divide by 365) and figure how many Bad Things per day that could mean--instead of the few per week we worry over.
Art
Seconds later, police repeated their command for Hale to show them his hands, and they Tasered him a second time."
Vairochana, third paragraph: "...a Wilmington police officer fired three .40-caliber rounds into his chest."
But like all these threads, it's mostly "Yes I did!" "No you didn't!" Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
And I'm fed up with it. There're over a milion cops in the US. I'm happy to assume that only one percent are evil and bad nasty. You do the math (Hint: 1,000,000 x 0.01 and then divide by 365) and figure how many Bad Things per day that could mean--instead of the few per week we worry over.
Art
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