Police Trainee Accidentally Killed By Instructor

[Weimadog]

Optical Serenity: *snip* This particular instructor is a very capable SWAT instructor... Very high speed, and has probably put more rounds down range than 99% of those even on here. *snip*

Experience is no excuse. He should still follow The Four Rules.

 

[kikilee]

I would venture to say it will be a long time before the details are revealed.

 

[c_yeager]

All worthless conjecture at this point anyway.

This is of course correct

My first guess when I heard it was that a real gun got mixed into retention training. But still, all just conjecture.

And yet that correct statement is followed by another nugget of worthless conjecture.

Even if we assume that this is true, how does it absolve the instructor of responsibility?

 

[zookrider]

Even if we assume that this is true, how does it absolve the instructor of responsibility?

I have yet to see anybody here attempt to absolve the instructer of responsibilty, only a few attempts to guess at what might have actually occured. Furthemore, I think the last thing that is needed is a bunch of pontificating by self righteous individuals who weren't there and don't know what happened. While it is true that this is a horrible event never should have happened and the lion's share of my compassion rightfully goes out to the family of the deceased, I will save some for the man who will have to live with this burden for the rest of his life. The fact that he made a mistake, fatal or otherwise, should not earn him instant contempt from all who hear the tale. Was he in the wrong? Probably. Will he pay for this? Probably. As he should, personal responsibility and all that (though I doubt that any punishment metted out by others will be half as severe as the punishment he will heap upon himself.) Should he be treated as a pariah for the rest of his life, as the tone of some of you here on this forum would suggest? Not hardly. It is easy to kick a man who is down, it is harder indeed to lift him up.

SpookyPistolero said it best:

There but by the grace of God go I.........

[/soapbox]

 

[Janitor]

The fact that he made a mistake, fatal or otherwise, should not earn him instant contempt from all who hear the tale. Was he in the wrong? Probably. Will he pay for this? Probably.

Yup, and yup.

All that we know: A student was shot. An instructor was in the room. A news article says the instructor did the shooting.

That's it. That most scenarios one might come up with from that may involve gross negligence, they are still scenarios that one came up with. Not known facts.

G'head and say whatever you want about the guy though. That's what the 1st is all about. Compassion isn't a requirement of speaking your mind.

 

[c_yeager]

A little bit more information has been released, not much though.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/cobb/0905/14trainee.html

------

A trainee at a Cobb County police academy was killed Tuesday when the instructor's gun accidentally went off during the first day of firearms training, authorities said.

The woman, a new recruit with the Kennesaw police department, was identified today as Tara Drummond, 23. She was among 30 rookie officers in the seventh week of a 10-week program at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy in Austell.

The trainees were in a classroom in the basement of the academy, located in a converted textile mill, when the gun discharged about 4 p.m., said Carol Morgan, the academy director.

County Sheriff Neil Warren, whose office administers the program for Cobb, declined to discuss details of the shooting.

Drummond was taken to a local hospital where she died a short time later.

She was the first Kennesaw police officer killed in the line of duty, said department spokesman Scott Luther.

Kennesaw police Chief Tim Callahan called the death "a tragic accident," and added: "For the next few days, we want to honor the life of this young officer who would have been a great officer one day."

The class instructor is an "experienced veteran" of the county sheriff's office who has been teaching at the academy for 10 years, Sheriff Warren said.

Shaken up by the shooting, the instructor was also taken to a hospital but later released, Warren said.

The instructor, who was not named, has been placed on administrative leave until an internal investigation by the sheriff's office, the county police department and Austell police.

------

I saw everything i needed in the first sentance.

Really though, if you want to believe that a man is a victim because the gun in his hand killed a young woman all by itself, thats up to you.

 

[Janitor]

... because the gun in his hand killed a young woman ...

All the articles I've seen thus far said it was the instructors gun. Not that it was in his hand.

County Sheriff Neil Warren, whose office administers the program for Cobb, declined to discuss details of the shooting.

So we'll go ahead and make some of our own details up.

Reality is, that every shooter (who isn't a goblin, zombie, or scum bag) will end up being a victim of their actions at some level or another. We can choose to care, or not care about that. Doesn't change the facts though.

 

[treeprof]

More details. This was supposed to be a gun and live ammo-free building.

http://wsbradio.com/news/091505traineeshot3a.html
____________________________________________
AUSTELL, Ga. (AP) A firearms instructor who accidentally shot and killed a police trainee at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy in Cobb County violated safety rules by bringing a loaded gun, officials said.

Tara Drummond, 23, a recruit with the Kennesaw Police Department, died Tuesday shortly after being shot once in the chest, said Cobb County Sheriff Neil Warren, who is leading the investigation into the shooting.

Ammunition is banned from the building, said Warren, who declined to release the instructor's name or any initial findings as to why he had the pistol.

Also, state policy bans any working firearm loaded or not from academy classrooms, said Bob Sanderson, assistant director of the Georgia Public Safety Training Center in Forsyth. The state oversees the center in Austell and nine other regional police academies.

``In the classroom, they use what is called a red gun, models that are made of red, hard plastic that are replicas of actual handguns,'' Sanderson said.

Warren gave no details on how or why the gun fired.

The instructor will remain on paid leave until an investigation by the sheriff, county police and Austell police is finished, Warren said.

The trainees were in a classroom in the basement of the academy when the gun discharged around 4 p.m. Tuesday, said Carol Morgan, the academy director. Drummond was taken to a local hospital where she died a short time later.

The instructor was treated briefly after the shooting for unspecified medical symptoms and continued to be under the care of a doctor Wednesday, Warren said. The 25-year Cobb County deputy sheriff has been assigned to the academy as an instructor for 10 years, Warren said.

Drummond, a rookie at the Kennesaw Police Department, was in her seventh week of the 10-week training course. She is the first Kennesaw officer to be killed on duty, spokesman Scott Luther said.

She began working for the 60-officer police department June 1 and started training Aug. 1. Drummond had hoped to become a detective someday, Luther said.

At Kennesaw police headquarters, flags were lowered to half-staff in Drummond's honor.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
______________________________________________________

 

[pax]

Bad juju, bringing a live gun into a role-play area.

On occasion, in classes with a FOF component, I've heard students grumble about being patted down to double and then triple-check that there are no live firearms present. Or complain that they won't go for the backup gun on their ankle, so why can't they leave it there?

Here's why.

pax

The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything. -- William Connor Magee

 

[TheEgg]

A firearms instructor who accidentally shot and killed a police trainee at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy in Cobb County violated safety rules by bringing a loaded gun, officials said.

Does not look good for the instructor. Can't see how this can be anything but negligence (Negligent Homicide?, Manslaughter?), at least with the facts so far.

And yes, I understand that the situation can change with more information.

 

[thatguy]

People who work with dangerous objects can get careless after a while and forget how quickly mechanical things can turn on you. A good friend who works in construction told me over the phone the other night that he put his thumb into a power saw earlier this week. He's worked with such tools for decades... and forgot how unforgiving power tools are. The most risky time for a motorcyclist is 6 months after learning to ride. Over cautious at first, by 6 months they get cocky. With luck the mishap will be minor or a near miss and he or she will straighten up. If not...

Same with people who handle guns a lot. You have to work hard at remembering and practicing safe gun handling. But people, being human, are imperfect and errors occur. I think this 25 year veteran officer was so casual about being armed and handling guns after so many years that mistakes were made. Sometimes it doesn't take a big mistake to bring about tragic results. Sometimes a series of small mistakes can add up to serious trouble.

This is an awful situation for all involved. But it does appear that the training officer is at fault. He is ultimately responsible for whatever happens in the classroom and from the sketchy details it seems it was his gun, brought loaded into an area where firearms and ammo are prohibited, that was the problem. Whether it was dropped, mistaken for a training tool, or discharged during a demonstration, multiple violations of the rules of safe gun handling obviously occurred.

I suspect that at the very least the training officer will be dismissed and the city will be sued. At worst he may be charged with a criminal offense. No winners, here. A very sad thing for everyone.

 

[Psssniper]

Hey I have an idea
lets just make stuff up and pontificate and see who can come up with the best sounding post, never mind the facts

"Facts are stubborn things."
~ Alain Rene Lesage (1668-1747)

"Where facts are few, experts are many."
~ Donald R. Gannon

"Never give up and never face the facts."
~ Ruth Gordon

"There are no facts, only interpretations."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)

"The truth is more important than the facts."
~ Frank Lloyd Wright (1868-1959)

"The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion."
~ Arnold H. Glasow

"Practical politics consists of ignoring facts."
~ Henry Adams (1838-1918)

"An ounce of emotion is equal to a ton of facts."
~ John Junor

"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."
~ Socrates (469-399 BC)

"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable."
~ Mark Twain (1835-1910)

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."
~ Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

"My mind's made up — don't confuse me with the facts."
~ unknown

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
~ Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

"By all means, let's not confuse ourselves with the facts!"

A black woman trainee at a Cobb County police academy was killed Tuesday when the instructor's gun most likely accidentally went off on a rampage during the first day of firearms training, authorities speculated.

The woman, a new recruit with the Kennesaw police department, was identified today as Tara Drummond, 23. She was among 30 rookie officers in the seventh week of a 10-week program at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy in Austell.

The trainees were in a classroom in the basement of the academy, located in a converted textile mill, when the gun, in a fit of anger, discharged all by itself after charging the woman about 4 p.m., said Carol Morgan, the academy director.

County Sheriff Neil Warren, whose office administers the program for Cobb, declined to discuss details of the shooting. But she did make this statement "We have the gun in custody and believe me mister he's going away for a long time"

Ms. Drummond was taken to a local hospital where she died a short time later after a visit from the Reverend Jesse Jackson. "If da bullit fits, you must convict" Jesse told reporters after leaving the hospital

She was the first Kennesaw police officer killed in the line of duty, said department spokesman Scott Luther.

Kennesaw police Chief Tim Callahan called the death "a tragic accident," and added: "For the next few days, we want to honor the life of this young officer who would have been a great officer one day."

The class instructor is an "experienced veteran" of the county sheriff's office who has been teaching at the academy for 10 years, but "he should have his guns trained better than this". Sheriff Warren said.

Shaken up by the shooting, the instructor was also taken to a local amusement park and forced to play Bally's "Gunsmoke" but later released, Warren said.

The instructor, who was not named at birth but raised by wolves, has been placed on administrative leave until an internal investigation by the sheriff's office, the county police department and Austell police. X-rays will be taken at the hospital and then the internal investigation will be reviewed by a jury of doctors

My sincere condolences go to the family of Tara Drummond and to the instructor. My mockery is dedicated to the pundits at THR.

"Until the facts are known we all know nothing"
~ Psssniper on THR (1958-20??)

 

[c_yeager]

So we'll go ahead and make some of our own details up.

I only asked you to read ONE sentance in the whole article.

A trainee at a Cobb County police academy was killed Tuesday when the instructor's gun accidentally went off during the first day of firearms training, authorities said.

Just because Cobb County Sheriff Neil Warren (who runs the program) didnt release any details, doesnt mean that other unnamed people also didnt. Remember that the victim of this ordeal was *not* a Cobb county deputy, but a Kennisaw city police officer, different agencies.

G'head and say whatever you want about the guy though. That's what the 1st is all about. Compassion isn't a requirement of speaking your mind.

Frankly, i dont really care how sorry this guy is. He killed someone because he didnt follow the same rules of safety that every responsible gun owner lives by, that is simply *not* excusable.

Im going to save my compassion for the young woman who will never get her chance to die for something meaningfull, and for the family that will never see her again because of one man's negligence.

 

[Janitor]

I only asked you to read ONE sentance in the whole article.

A trainee at a Cobb County police academy was killed Tuesday when the instructor's gun accidentally went off during the first day of firearms training, authorities said.

I never said that you should, or should not feel sorry for the instructor. Ride a high horse, ride a low one. It makes zero difference to me.

I never said that the instructor was, or was not negligent.

I only said that nothing I read said the instructor had the gun in his hand. That is still a truth, and I still say you made up that detail.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Janitor, the article linked and copied in post #33 states:

A firearms instructor who accidentally shot and killed a police trainee at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy in Cobb County violated safety rules by bringing a loaded gun, officials said.

This may or may not be correct, but it is a report that puts the gun in the instructor's hand.

 

[Janitor]

I'll concede that one, even though it doesn't come out and say it.

Others may have seen it, but I didn't read that article until it was posted. And that was after I made my statement on details - in fact - it was even after I first defended my statement on details.

And - I still stand by my original statement.

Nothing I had read up until that point said the gun was in the instructors hand.

That is still true.

 

[thatguy]

PSSNIPER- What we here think or say will have no bearing on the case or what happens to those involved, so we don't really need to be 100% certain or accurate. This is is just idle discussion about a tragedy that everyone admits is still very sketchy on details. Please note my use of words like seems, appears, etc. indicating that my commentary is based on assumptions due to incomplete info. To those who are concerned about damning the TO without all the facts, rest assured that if it turns out that he wasn't responsible that, too, will be discussed. I don't think any of us are interested in forming a lynch mob, it's just discussion.

 

[Rockstar]

The instructor's sort of a local legend, known as "Action" Jackson. Yeah, he probably has put a lot of rounds downrange. Bet I know of at least one he'd like to call back. The guy's probably going to be prosecuted, and the State of GA, Cobb County, et al, will settle a very large lawsuit in favor of the victim's family.

Here's a supposed eye-witness account: Cut-n-pasted from Cop Talk Forum on Glocktalk. This is a post by an Atlanta area cop:

"Our department has a mandate student in that academy class. In fact, this particular trainee was standing right next to the decedent when the tragedy happened.

Though some of the details are sketchy (this is coming second hand information), the mandate students were inside of the gymnasium practicing dry-firing exercises (with their issued weapons, not ASP red guns) from hasty cover and awkward positions. The instructor then proceeded to illustrate one of the drills, assumed a kneeling stance and dry fired into his "target" (and unfortunately, his weapon wasn't dry and the target selection was suboptimal)."

I stick by my prediction that the instructor will be prosecuted and that the settlement will be in the millions.

 

[Janitor]

I stick by my prediction that the instructor will be prosecuted and that the settlement will be in the millions.

Just based on the single fact that there wasn't supposed to be any amunition in that classroom, I'd have to guess you're right. Not sure about what criminal prosecution there will be - some sort of gross negligence/manslaughter charge? - but the civil suit is bound to be big indeed.

 

[c_yeager]

In georgia the criminal charge would probably be "Criminal Negligence: Involuntary Manslaughter. This occurs when the person being charged commited a lawful act in a reckless manner, resulting in the death of another person. It is a misdemeanor, i wouldnt be suprised at all if the man avoided jail time alltogether.

 

[K-Romulus]

basement? gym? classroom? no firearms and no ammo allowed?

BUT they were dry firing inside the building?

There are too many "facts" floating around to follow the story . .

 

[Havegunjoe]

This was of course a tragic accident.

We recently had what appeard to be a convience store robbery that turned out to be a self inflicted shooting by the victim. The local chief's comment was to discourage having guns in the store. They had been robbed and the owner bought the gun as a result.

This story shows how even the best trained can make mistakes. I tend to get irritated when the police claim to be the only ones capable of handling guns safely. They are just as human, and prone to human error as the rest of us motals.

 

[zookrider]

Really though, if you want to believe that a man is a victim because the gun in his hand killed a young woman all by itself, thats up to you.

I never said that he was a victim, nor did I imply that he should be treated like one. I said that he should (and likely will) pay for his mistake. I also said that the commission of that mistake does not render him a sub-human element worthy of only scorn and derision. To hear many of you tell it, this man should be exiled to Siberia to live out his days or maybe hung from the nearest tree, I know, lets boil him in oil and ship his family to North Korea!!!!

 

[Shootcraps]

.

 

[Shootcraps]

Sorry about that. The posts on this one are coming fast and furious. Sounds like Action Jackson is in big trouble.