Political interlopers

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Monkeyleg

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Many of us--some with lives, some without--have been around THR, TFL and other forums for a number of years, even going back to the late 1990's.

One thing I've noticed is that, at particularly opportune times, posters just suddenly appear. These particular posters usually promote or denegrate a candidate or a particular piece of legislation. When the election, or the vote on the bill, is over, they're gone.

Back in 2000, when the media was hyperventilating about John McCain, there was a poster on TFL who was doing his best to swing TFL members to McCain's side. Once the primaries--and McCain's presidential aspirations--were over, that poster forever disappeared. I haven't seen him here, nor anywhere else.

When the decision was made to go into Iraq, there were some new posters who argued vehemently against that action. When Bagdahd fell, they were as gone as Hussein.

Late last year, when the battle for CCW in Wisconsin was extremely close, THR had a poster who used every opportunity to bash the bill, sometimes resorting to some very twisted logic. Since the veto override vote failed, I haven't seen him around.

Now that we see a very close race--at least to the extent that snapshots of current polls provide--between Bush and Kerry, there are a whole new crop of contrarian posters pushing for Kerry.

Rich Lucibella and Oleg Volk have very generously provided us with free forums in which we can debate all sorts of positions. And I think it's quite clear their motivations: both Rich and Oleg are staunch RKBA supporters, and have done more than 99.9% of gun owners to further that cause.

But I wonder about the hit-and-run posters, those who just show up in time to try to promote their agenda, and then disappear just as quickly.

If, for example, I were trying to work to get John McCain elected in the primaries, I'd be out on the streets distributing literature, posting yard signs, doing phone banks, and calling like-minded friends to contribute. I wouldn't be hanging out on forums trying to sway one or maybe even two opinions over the course of perhaps weeks.

So, what motivates these "interlopers?"
 
My question is, what is the motivation for people to respond to their posts. As you know, we have a guy right now trolling this board on a daily basis. His agenda is clear. He never mentions guns or shooting. His posts are strictly political. People post to these threads like mad while he basically never says another word. He is enjoying this. Why ? Because people play his game while he plays them.
:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Times are what they are...The whole world has an agenda and it's an election year...One real eye-opener is to follow profiles back to posters web-pages...It's amazing how many are just politically motivated and not always in favor of the 2nd...It's not a little forum anymore...For the several thousand that spend any time here, there are many more that drift in and out with the wind...

One good thing...it's seldom boring...is it?

g2

cool6.gif
 
So, what motivates these "interlopers?"

IMHO I would sum it up in three motivations:

1. To promote a Political agenda contrary to the ideals of a good portion of THR members. Clearly identifiable if you notice most do not present the result of their own thought (or lack thereof). It's usually a cut and paste of somebody elses work.

2. To add to Polarization of issues. Some people just like to muckrake.

3. To elicit responses that will confirm their own pre-determined and stereotypical beliefs. You can see these coming in the topic or structure of their post. Unfortunately, someone usually takes the bait.
 
I don't know if this makes any sense, but there's a theme I see throughout the internet that the typical staunch 2A supporter is a strict Constitutionalist libertarian loyal to no political party, and therefore can be swayed one way or another. (personally, seems the majority here favor true conservatism, but we certainly have staunch libertarians and liberals too.)

I think that was why we started seeing Dean supporters here - they thought his "not as bad as the rest" guns message would appeal to gunners angry at Bush. To a certain extent it continues with Kerry, though they only have the "angry at Bush" meme to push as Kerry is of course "worse than the rest" when it comes to guns.

FWIW, had the internet been as pervasive in 1996 I think we would have seen more of a "anybody but Clinton" movement too.

But basically I think it boils down to the perception that gun nuts are strict Constitutionalists, though I think its somewhat insulting to think that a few cut and paste articles are going to sway widespread opinion.
 
I noticed that too - they prolly do it to spread misinformation and mayhem.Id imagine they forumn search just as you or I might channel surf looking for something good to watch...run the gaultlet..then pop out into another forumn.It wouldnt surprise me if it were some sort of ad campain.
 
Fifteen minutes of fame irritating those with different views. Happens every four years. Remember the Florida recount. Making an anonymous A** out of yourself is a favorite internet passtime. Lots of this would never be mentioned face to face or in a group.
 
Or maybe they believe in frank open exchange of views.

I'm here because you guys challenge a lot of my inherent assumptions. I'd consider it intellectually lazy of myself to post on a forum where everybody agreed with me all of the time.

That, and this is the best mannered forum I have ever come across. Let's not marr that by getting stressy about a bit of 'alternative opinion'. As long as it is respectfully voiced we should welcome it.

We should never be afraid to consider changing our minds, or to be afraid to admit that we have changed our minds.

I have.

- pro-US (not that I was anti-American)
- pro-RKBA (to a great extent, not sure how it should be applied over here)
- Believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary
- far more interested in personal freedoms

etc.

BUT - I have not become afraid of a free and frank exchange of opinions, nor will I slip into the easy assumption that those who oppose me are stupid. Hope I'm not the only one.
 
I have no problem at all with people that don't agree with me. I enjoy a good debate and find that I often come to understand other points of view as a result. There are times when I actually change my mind about something as a result of one of these discussions.
That however is not what I referred to in my previous post.
I was thinking more of the "cut and paste" type of post. The person doesn't give an opinion one way or the other. They usually don't defend any postion. They simply cut and paste an article that most people on this forum don't agree with. And they do it over and over, and usually don't participate in any other topics on the forum.
 
jeez, all thoughtful posts to date

and that argue to not defining the 'others' too rigorously.

But, having said that, I am fairly convinced there is an 'underground,' loosely-formed coalition of Bush-haters that have organized themselves enough to go around and post at political forums.

I post at the MPR (Minnesota Public Radio) forums much here than I do here--(for the simple reason that I like to have my conformist views challenged, and that won't happen here)--and at that forum I usually try to keep the pro RKBA issues flying as well as provide a "conservative" viewpoint.

That forum had a couple of new members check in this spring--ones clearly not from the general "Minnesota" community that a forum like MPR focuses on. Both were clearly Bush haters, out on a mission to make sure any pro-Bush/pro conservative viewpoint was stomped on--and stomped on hard.

One in particular is one of the most articulate and lucid/logical posters I have ever seen--and one of the most vehement ranters as well. Fundamentally, he is a Liberal True Believer who also loves the official Democrat party line--and his rhetorical skills are awesome.

I spent two hours one night trying to run this guy down--on the Internet, that is--and if I had a few more skills I probably could have gotten to an actual identity--and I may have identfied him. Not that it would really matter--but it's hard for me to believe he doesn't work as a political operative only--and that's after completing his undergraduate degree in Political Science, a Master Degree in PolySci, and a law degree--his posts are that articulate.

Interestingly enough, on gun issues this guy can debate reasonably well, without the over-the-top rants. Comes down on the states'-rights version, of course, but he can slip around any of the arguments I can put forth--and others as well who work with me there.

So, after the chase down, what's the locus--why, the Democratic Underground, of course.

Given the tendency towards communalism that inhabits "the Left" and which is antithetical to the Right, why should there be any doubt that the DU is the source of spreading dissent amongst pro-RKBA folk? The subject itself for gunnies should be our foremost principle--but there's enough relativists that will weigh other issues equally with it.
 
The lack of a social life mixed with an idealistic political position???
That could be said of some regulars as well. I know I have boards that I rarely visit, then decide to drop in and post every once in a while. The same probably applies to the people referred to by the thread starter.
 
I personally glean quite a bit of knowledge from some of the opinions/articles of various posters throughout the forum, and post in those rare instances when I feel I have something to contribute.

Being fairly new to THR- what to the bulk of you, constitutes an "ideal" or "model" member? I'm sincerely curious.
 
Actually, coming here and debating and watching debates unfold helps my debating skills. I only wish I could speak as eloquently as I type. :) I enjoy debating and trying to sway someone to see my point of view. I often debate those who hold my former viewpoint. I only wish I could debate as well as a few here, like Marko, Pax, and Tamara to name a few.


It takes alot to get on my ignore list, and sometimes it seems some are bound and determined to get on that list. The afformentioned "cut and paste" guy is one of those few determined.
 
I post a lot more in L&P than anywhere else because on most of the other forums most people know more than I do and I am there to learn. Here, my opinion is as good as anyone else's.:neener: :neener: :neener:

I'm fairly new to this board but plan on being here awhile. I like youse guys.

I like to see our liberal brethren show up and give a different perspective. Compared to some other places I've visited the debate here is very good. Most of the liberal oriented boards won't tolerate debate. At least not what I consider debate. (shall we hang 'em or gas 'em is not debate)

I second onerifle's idea for a thread hijack:neener:
 
This is a well moderated forum (although I really have nothing else to compare it to). Different points of view are presented. There is some cut-n-paste/hit-n-run going on but I do not mind. Analyzing the motives behind the hit-n-run also helps shape the debate. It also helps us in considering other perspectives.

Discussing the points using the high road method makes us get the thoughts out cleanly (and wittily) without resorting to personal attacks.

Discussing these various perspectives helps all of us sharpen the debating points.

Keep it on the high road.
 
Just because someone might have 1000 or more posts doesn't mean that he can't be a troller... he might just be a very effective one.

Seriously, I don't understand it. It's like having someone who supports a politician who wants to ban beef and pork posting on a barbeque forum.

:rolleyes:
 
What really bugs me are the people that will post a very controversial subject, and then never reply to anything that anyone’s says. They post a new thread and then turn into a lurker. I HATE THAT. It makes me suspicious every time.
 
Seriously, I don't understand it. It's like having someone who supports a politician who wants to ban beef and pork posting on a barbeque forum.

No kidding. I don't see how it isn't trolling to actively support a candidate with a 100% anti-RKBA voting record... on a gun forum.

I can see being anti-Bush and pro-RKBA pretty easily. I can see being for total anarchy and RKBA. I can see any combination of wierd-assed issues and points of view being compatable with being pro-RKBA. This forum should support and encourage communication among ANYBODY that is pro-RKBA, or would even consider being pro-RKBA. What it shouldn't do is support the presence of trollers who actively support politicians who are documented as having 100% anti-RKBA voting records.

Not merely agree with him on certain issues, or disagree with particular attacks on him. But actively support him at every opportunity, even though he is an avowed OPPONENT of the entire purpose of this forum!

Welcome to The High Road, an online discussion board dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership.

That candidate would be, by the way, Senator John Kerry, (D) MA.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?inds=42
 
Trolls are easily detected, and I must admit, they are very funny. Best thing I read here was a liberal that bragged about his high IQ, despite ANYBODY with a high IQ wouldn't brag about their high IQ (and I know some of them).

Let them in, and have fun with them.
 
Sean Smith has it right when he wrote "I don't see how it isn't trolling to actively support a candidate with a 100% anti-RKBA voting record... on a gun forum."I believe that statement best sums up what is wrong with the picture.
 
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