Poll: Do you think common theive, burglars, etc recognize "tactical" gear?

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Another topic brought this to mind. I would make it a poll but for some reason THR does not allow me to start a poll in the S&T forum. Not sure if it's a software glitch or what, but I guess just typing your response will suffice.

Do you think your average criminal, even a regular-offender, recognizes "tactical" gear, clothing, brand names, etc. If you're wearing a 5.11 jacket or ball cap, what chance do you think a would-be mugger will recognize that brand and presume there's a good chance you're armed. To tie into the other thread, do you think a brand such as Maxpedition, that is well knowing in the gun-owner/military/LE community is recognized easily outside this group? Will a Maxpedition backpack let a common criminal know you might have a gun more easily than an off the shelf Wal-Mart or Dunham's backpack?

It's probably not as simple as yes or no. But there a number of things that to us indicate a gun owner. Certain brand names like 5.11, Maxpedition, Blackhawk, Galco, etc. in either clothing or gear. Little things like a fanny pack, a knife clip in the pocket, a photo-vest or orange tint sunglasses. Most of us recognize this stuff, especially the brands, and could easily point it out if we saw it on another person.

But what do you think the chance is that your everyday mugger, pickpocket, car thief, drug addict, low life is going to see a 5.11 backpack and know that there's a good chance that the owner has a gun?
 
Not to be rude, but....so? I'm confused as to how that pertains to my question.

Another angle. Without looking it up online, If you saw me with a Vic Firth backpack, would you be able to accurately guess one of my hobbies?
 
generally no, but there will, of course, be exceptions

your average criminal is a scumbag too lazy to hold down a real job, and of course, there are exceptions
 
Well there are always exceptions to everything. Today could be the day I stumble into a terrorist attack at the mall and save the day. But that's no reason to carry an AR to the mall just in case. I'm only asking about relative probabilities, not cut and dry yes/no certainties. Anything can happen. But at a certain level of improbability, we recognize that going out of our way to mitigate the risk isn't worth it. Like carrying an AR. We carry pistols because we think the risk of needing one is just high enough to make it worth it. We generally don't carry rifles around because the risk of needing that isn't high enough to be worth the trouble, and if it was, we just wouldn't be going to the place we think we might need a rifle.

So does wearing "tactical" or gun-centric gear and clothing create a high enough of a risk as to warrant avoiding it to avoid the risk?
 
even if it WAS recognized, whether there is a risk is up for debate, as it might have a deterent effect

in general, no, most criminals aspire to be oppurtunistic predators - they'll recognize a confident stride before they spot your tactical shoelaces
 
Recognize by brand name? No. Unless they stole something like a maxpedition bag, then did a little research on it to figure out a selling price.

But they do recognize "military style" tactical stuff, though.

Or, put it this way- if I came to your house wearing a "Skunk2" shirt, would you know what it was? Probably not, unless you're into racing Honda's.

It's improbable that they're "gun guys", so they're not gonna be into the brand names of gun stuff.
 
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But what do you think the chance is that your everyday mugger, pickpocket, car thief, drug addict, low life is going to see a 5.11 backpack and know that there's a good chance that the owner has a gun?

Tactical stuff can also look like a current or former military member, etc. How much actual deterent effect it has is probably entirely variable. A better deterent is generally going to be not looking like prey -- situational awareness, how you carry yourself, etc.
 
I think I know what topic got this thread started lol. And no, I dont think the average criminal knows that 5.11 has anything to do with firearms. I choose not to dress tacticool because I dont want to draw attention to myself. I think that wearing logo merch is a bad idea and draws attention. It could be a deterent or it could make you a target.
 
They may or may not recognize it.
That being said from my life experience of three home burglaries it appears that a lot of theives have a gut instinct on what will fetch them money on the things that they steal from you.
 
Have we turned into Wikipedia now, where truth is determined by popular opinion (poll)

Maxpedition packs serve the same general purpose as do jackets with pull out ID panels. They keep the un-observing general public from an uncomfortable truth. Anyone with some skin in the game, or just paying attention though, knows exactly what's up.

People on this forum tend to not give criminals enough credit and assume that they're collectively a group of brain dead, unmotivated wasteoids. While that is certainly true of a portion of them, it's a dangerous assumption to apply to the rest. Once you play the ORC game long enough, you see that even the meth heads get organized. It's no coincidence that depending on what week it is, retailers are either getting cleaned out of Tide or tooth paste. This lack of respect for the criminal element has lead some people to believe that if you make things out of olive, coyote or black ballistic nylon then cover it with Molle straps and buckles the bad guys will never figure out what is up... Never mind the fact your gear look suspiciously similar to the SWAT guy who kicked in his cousins door the other day...

Criminals learn just like any other predator what is worth their time and effort and what is not. That's why you don't put a gun in the glove box. We've trained criminals to expect it there. And yes, we've been training criminals for years that wannabe tactical gear means goodies. They might not all know about it by now, but a large enough segment of them do. And they talk. And they organize. And yes, the droogies are sent out looking for specified items.

Don't believe me Maxpedition type packs scream "gun" to criminals? Simple mental exercise. You're a vice cop out to do some buys. Do you wear your Maxpedition Versipack?

Though not.

Semi-Tactical packs are good for what they do... A durable way to carry stuff. But, they all scream, "I wanted to work for Blackwater but couldn't". At least a few companies have figured out to start making them in colors that aren't just surplus military ballistic nylon.
 
I doubt that your garden variety thug pays much attention to clothing brands, but I would bet most all of them know how to size up a potential victim and make an educated guess if it is a good or bad risk on their part. There are always exceptions of course but in general, paying attention, general demenor, eye contact that kind of thing. As they say if you look like food, you will become food.
I wear 511 pants and boots because they are comfortable, lasting, and I like the pockets for "stuff", not because I want to look like a SF dude. But I also pay attention, walk with purpose, and make eye contact when people approach me. So far I have not become food. :scrutiny:
 
I am told I have a look. When I was out of the army, I was told I look and act like someone in the army. Even when I had a ponytail. I walk with purpose, scan everything all around me, ...like that. I think this is at least as likely to peg me as a likely gun guy as any piece of clothing or gear I wear.

I don't really care. I wear the fanny pack, gun maker t-shirts, a hat with a 3rd ID patch on it. I really don't think it makes much difference in my case.
 
I seriously doubt there are many potential street criminals who are going to recognize the brand 511. If you really want to convey the "i'm armed" message wear "Team Glock" or other such blatantly gun related apparel.
 
Most street thugs can identify high dollar brands at a glance. Your shoes or boots, brand name jeans, jacket, hat, sunglasses, etc. are recognized by street criminals and at a surprisingly young age. Most of the juvenile offenders I worked with knew what was of value and what were cheap Wal-mart brands, mostly by sight if not by name.

Street thugs aren't running around with stolen Hi Points, they are running Glocks and Springfields, Rugers and Smith&Wessons. They figure out pretty quickly what sort of stuff sells, and what gets thrown in a dumpster as worthless junk.

They might not always know technical terminology, but their instincts on what sells after they steal it are pretty spot on.
 
Vic firth? You're obviously a drummer Ranger... ;)

But honestly, I doubt any average joe, criminal or not will recognize any gun related brand name gear just by the name. I'm sure a S&W, Winchester, Beretta, or other big name gun manufacturers logo might be obvious, but outside of that, I doubt it.

Heck, I'll be honest, I didn't even recognize half of those brands in the OP.
 
Ragnar Danneskjold said:
So does wearing "tactical" or gun-centric gear and clothing create a high enough of a risk as to warrant avoiding it to avoid the risk?
It would depend on how well known the logo is in popular media.

I'm fairly confident that more thugs would recognize a BB hat with GLOCK on it than CZ or H&K...due to Glock's popularity in gangsta rap music.

In the Fall, as the weather is not quite ready for full wet gear, I'm pretty sure more folks recognize my Domo BB cap than my SIG zip-up hoodie
 
I'd say "no, not really". Most of the guys who buy that stuff are 22 year old Call of Duty gamers with un-fired tacticool junk under their beds in mom's basement. Not to over generalize.

Translation..... I've never heard of those brands and I've been a shooting enthusiast for 20+ years.
 
Learning to profile is an essential part of the criminal victim selection process. While clothing selection, logos etc. of potential victims might play some part in being de-selected, I'd say that the 'switched on' attitude of most who carry would do far more to discourage selection than what they're wearing.

I did discuss the matter briefly at Polite Society 2012 with another attendee, who was wearing paint-spattered work pants etc. one day. I asked him if he was dressing for success in de-selection :D, and he admitted that he was, figuring that someone who looked 'working class' in Memphis was less likely to draw unwelcome attention.

There's always the old standard advice from John Farnam -

http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html

19 Mar 03

Layers of response:

Years ago, Jeff Cooper delineated the "Color Code" and the "Principles of Personal Defense" in an effort to provide us with a logical model for one's thinking on the subject of mental preparedness. I'd like now to go to the next step and apply the same logic to the issue of personal appearance and demeanor, as we all agree that, in the domestic defensive environment, avoiding a fight is preferable to winning one.

Layer One: Nonattendance. The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. This is the advice I give to all students of defensive firearms. Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable.

Crowds of any kind, particularly those with an agenda, such as political rallies, demonstrations, picket lines, etc are good examples of "stupid places." Any crowd with a high collective energy level harbors potential catastrophe. To a lesser degree, bank buildings, hospital emergency rooms, airports, government buildings, and bars (particularly crowded ones) fall into the same category. All should be avoided. When they can't be avoided, we should make it a practice to spend only the minimum time necessary there and then quickly get out.

"A superior gunman is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment in order to keep himself out of situations that would require the use of his superior skills."

Layer Two: Functional invisibility. We all need to practice to art of "being invisible." It is in our best interest to go our way unnoticed, both by potential predators and by the criminal justice system alike.

Whenever I travel, particularly to foreign countries, I endeavor to be the one that no one notices; no one recalls; no one remembers. I silently slip through the radar, leaving no trace, a nameless, faceless tourist. When in any public place, I try to be clean and well groomed, but I never wear bright colors, any kind of jewelry, or anything shiny. I smile a lot, but talk softly and as little as possible. As we say in the law enforcement business, "Courteous to everyone. Friendly to no one."

Loud talking, bright colors, Rolex watches, etc will consistently accumulate unwanted attention. On the other end of the spectrum, tattoos, poor grooming, loud and offensive language, a slovenly appearance, etc will also garner unwelcome notice.

Layer Three: Deselection. Any successful predator has the ability to quickly screen potential victims, focusing in on the ones who look as if they will make good victims and rejecting those who either (1) look too strong for expedient victimization or (2) don't conveniently fall into any particular category.

When invisibility fails, we need endeavor to be consistently deselected for victimization. We do this by making it a habit to appear alert, uninviting, self-confident, and strong. At the same time, we never loiter or appear indecisive. We are always in motion.

"Weakness perceived is weakness exploited!"

Layer Four: Disengagement: Our best interests are not served by any kind of engagement with potential predators. Successful disengagement involves posturing, bearing, verbalizations, and movement. It is in our best interest to disengage at the lowest reasonable force level, but we must simultaneously be prepared to instantly respond to unlawful force with superior force.

Potential predators, as they attempt verbal engagement, should be politely dismissed. Bearing and eye contact should always project strength and confidence. We should continuously be moving off the "line of force." We should be observant in every direction, giving potential predator duos and trios the distinct impression that they will not be able to sneak up on us.

When predators are confused, they are unable to focus sufficiently to carry off their victimization. Therefore, never let a potential predator seize the agenda. Don't answer his questions, and don't stay in any one place very long.

Disengagement, separation, and exit are our immediate goals when we have been selected or are being seriously evaluated by predators. However, if there is to be a fight, the best one is a short one. If a predator menaces me with a gun or a knife, I know that, before it is all over, there is a good chance that I will be shot or cut. However, within that prison of circumstance, I also know that the faster I can end the fight, the less hurt I'm going to get! If there must be a fight, I must explode into action, moving smoothly and quickly, in an effort to confuse and overwhelm my opponent before he has a chance to process all the information I'm throwing at him.

Ultimately, we must "have a plan." Potentially dangerous encounters must be thought about in advance. Decisions must be made. Skills must be practiced. Confusion, hesitation, and vacillation will always attract the attention of predators and simultaneously stimulate predator behavior.

/John
 
NO

Unless its clearly marked SMITH & WESSON or some other obvious brand [ COLT ] then I say no.

Now LEO's see it and those with real street cred's are going to give you the 'look over' to see if your an off duty ,in country 'operator' or a wanna be.

The look that a perp is looking for ,is to see if anyone is giving him the 'hard eye',he then will assume that person is security or LEO.

Go shopping and look around,if you see ANYONE looking at you - instead of the merchandise = they are either a perp or LEO/security.

Those with prison time are generally not trained to look for a label [ 5:11's etc].

I have spotted and been spotted by just wearing a pair of 5:11's,and all we do is exchange nod's.and of course a smile.
 
But what do you think the chance is that your everyday mugger, pickpocket, car thief, drug addict, low life is going to see a 5.11 backpack and know that there's a good chance that the owner has a gun?

Extremely low because they are not exposed to it, though some anti-snob gun types may identify you as a 'wannabe.'

The bad guys who are going to recognize tactical gear are those who were once formerly involved with tactical gear in some manner (former cops, contractors, military) or spent a lot of time with cops, contractors, or military types.

Another angle. Without looking it up online, If you saw me with a Vic Firth backpack, would you be able to accurately guess one of my hobbies?

Yes, only because my kids are in music.

generally no, but there will, of course, be exceptions

your average criminal is a scumbag too lazy to hold down a real job, and of course, there are exceptions

I always like the comments that denerate the opposition so as to make our position seem so superior. That the bad guys often don't have what we consider to be a "real job" and yet are managing to still get by, some quite well, makes it sound like they may be working smarter, not harder, to get the bucks. There are always tradeoffs, however, just like with "real jobs."
 
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