Poll on position for legalizing drugs

[White Horseradish]

Horshradish,

Sorry you do not understand what I have stated,most of that post was a response to on of Sindaw's earlier post.

Sindaw,

The terms and compairisions are simple enough,even for the impaired to understand.

How many druggies/users/abusers does it take to convince the sober drugs are good for society or at least cause no harm?

None,the more who come out simply show how bad the problem is.



CW

Oh, it's much clearer now. Now that you apologized while implying that I am dumber than a drunk, I totally understand the gibberish you write. Oh, and thanks for answering my question.

Response to another post or not, I still can't make heads or tails of it. Making insulting inferences to other people's intelligence is not a good way to make a point, by the way.

 

[Art Eatman]

You get blitheered enough on hooch to worship at the porcelain throne, odds are you'll have a hangover. Do enough maryjane to get stoned, and there's no hangover.

Folks don't like pleasures that don't have built-in penalties...

(This thread's goin' nowhere, so I just thought I'd help.)

, Art

 

[why_me]

Art how do you feel about

Di hydrogen monoxide? Just wondering cause i know a lot of people use it with no problem and i never heard of any one having serious problems. Although there have been some over doses

 

[Sindawe]

Do enough maryjane to get stoned, and there's no hangover.

Actually thats not quite true Art. Don't forget the indentations in the couch from couch-lock, the empty pizza boxes, empty cerial boxes, empty Dorito's bags, empty containers of pop-corn, empty water bottles, empty soda cans from the smokers who get the munches. I imagine cleaning all those up can be a real hassle.

The now illegal drugs will probably be legalized as soon as some politician can think of a way to tax them. At least it was that way with booze. I think it is tough to legislate peoples morals. As long as there is demand there will be a supply.

Personally I think that the currently illegal recreational drugs could be taxed in the same way as the the currently legal ones are. Commercial producers of the stuff would be taxed for each unit of drug they produce for retail sale, and the costs passed on to the final consumer. We pay tax on EtOH and on tobbaco products when we purchase them (those of us who do purchase them). Put the taxes on the others as well, with required labels denoting strength and purity of the dosage. I suspect that the majority of people who's tastes run to the refined/synthethetic drugs would chose the standard quality and concentration product available at the corner liquor store over the stuff of unknown origins were their drug of choice available legally. Treat home production as we do homebrewing, no issues up to a particular amount for personal use or giving away as gifts, production for retail sale subject to licensing and taxation, avoiding those being a serious offense. Of course, if the amateur chemist poisons the neighborhood, it would be treated in the same fashion as you or I pouring bunch of household bleach into the battery acid.

 

[444]

I realize that even if this somehow ever happens, it WON'T happen without the government taxing it. I know this. There is no question about this.
However, it frustrates me when I see and hear people discuss this topic and immediately say (or type) something to the effect: just legalize it AND TAX IT. To me, that says that we fully accept the fact that we are going to be taxed to death. That everything possible will be taxed. AND WE ACCEPT THIS and are even willing to give suggestions on how this could be carried out.
Can't we at least put up just a tiny bit of resistance and say, let's legalize it (and not willing add anything to the sentence about taxation).
The fact that this idea is a totally foriegn concept to the American people really makes me lose heart that we will ever regain any of our freedom (not that I had much hope for it to begin with, but it is a thought).

 

[Sindawe]

Despite my being vehemently opposed to any form of taxation 444, I have to accept that should the currently illegal drugs be legalized, they will be taxed. I don't like it, but it seems that the majority of my countrymen don't have a burning issue with taxation. The power to lay and collect taxes is one of the powers granted to congress by the States.

 

[444]

As I clearly posted: I fully understand this.
But that doesn't mean I accept it. I will not ever suggest that anything be taxed even though I know it will be. I will not ever agree to being taxed even though I will be.

A minor point, but one that is important to me.

 

[why_me]

We need to tax

And here is why. IMHO YMMV
Take that tax revenue and fund fully fund treatment and education. No one wants to grow up to be a junky. No one wants to ever. It will never be socially acceptable to lose control of your life. Even if you legalise drugs you will never make abuse acceptable. Who here can say its ok to be an alcholic.
Not even an alcholic can agree with that.
The current WoD victimises all people using drugs. Stigmatises them to the point where to seek help is usually worse than the situation there in now.
People financially lose it cause it is artificially costly. Why should a drug addict have to give up everything in his possession or risk being arrested before they have the opportunity to turn there life around.
Its called hitting bottom.
Crime rates would go down more than you could possibly imagine. The whole drug trade would be wiped out over night.
I say tax it but keep it affordable. And you cant tax what you grow yourself.
So if you want THE WEED. Grow it in your closet or out on the porch. No one would be forcing you to by it from a regulated market.
Minors and drugs. This one is easy. 18 or 21 to use. Providing to minors.
Extreme punishment like 5 years mandatory minimum. Its time to end this delusional nightmare called The War on Drugs. Its time to get our rights back to true freedom. Thats what america represents. Thats the America i dream of. We are all responsible for the choices we make. My babysitter was laid off about 35 years ago I dont need the goverment taking her place.

 

[CWatson]

Horseradisht,

You must be dumber than drunk (your words) because you have yet again misread another post and took offense to part of the post clearly directed to someone else who I took offense to,clear enough for you??

Sorry if it seems like gibberish (a insulting inference ?),next time I respond to a post of yours I will write it S_I_M_P_L_E and C_L_E_A_R for you to understand.

Wait how can that be? How do you convince a bunch of guys circle jerking themselves into thinking legalizing certain drugs are good? How clear does it have to be?Wait this thread is not clear(cough cough),it is full of smoke and fumes with more than a hint of self serving BS.


CW

 

[Sindawe]

CWatson: Pay attention here, you may learn something about online etiquette.

444: Sorry, but right now I'm in a minarchist frame of mind. To me, minimizing or better yet totally negating the harm done to our Culture and Liberties by the War On Some Drugs is of greater import than giving a bit of resistance to the authority vested in congress by our Constitution. Offering up one possible means of control of the trade in recreational drugs can be seen as a means of introducing a radical idea to those who would normally dismiss the idea of legalization as a loony idea espoused by druggies only interesting in getting high. Should such a wonderous thing as legalization of all drugs come to pass in the means as I and others have suggested, you'd be free to not accept the taxes by producing the chemicals of your choice yourself. Homebrewers can sorta do this today by fermenting their own ethyl alcohol (EtOH). We do pay taxes on the supplies needed to produce that EtOH, unless we cultivate our own grain, hops, grapes, honey, yeast and the like.

You'll get no argument from me on the position that taxation is theft. In a perfect world there would be no taxation at all, and .govs would subsist solely on charity, or be non-existant. But if we lived in a perfect world, we would live in a perfect world. Perhaps you could open a thread to further expand on your position in opposition of taxation.

As for the possible use of taxes collected by the currently hypothetical legalization of drugs, I like why_me's suggestion. It present a "spoon of suger" to the medicine of legalization for those feel such is folly.

 

[Justin]

CWatson-

If you're going to take part in threads like this on THR, I strongly suggest that you stop making ad-hominem accusations that those arguing for legalization are drug addicts.

Please feel free to dissect the arguments of those you disagree with by using rational and/or logical thought.

 

[Firethorn]

CWatson, I just want to let you know that you look to be tettering on the edge of the highroad...

Just to let you know, I don't drink, smoke, or do any illegal drugs. Yet I still support legalization? Why? Because I look at the money spent on the WoD, and it's complete and utter failure. I look at the studies that show that kids can get the illegal drugs easier than the legal for adult ones. I read about the nasty stuff the dealers do to adulturate the drugs. The poor quality control.
I read about lives lost when the cops bust through the door, looking to find drugs, shooting the 'threatening' man in bed, only to find they busted the door to the wrong house. I read about the gangs having wars to defend their turf. Turf that is valuable because it's where they sell their drugs.

There are many parallels between the WoD and prohibition. Compare the Gangs with the Mobs.

 

[BillBlank]

This post's so long I can't remember the original question and my eyes hurt

I'll try to stick to the point and be brief.

I concur that narcotics are merely another tool of evolution. They weed out the stupid and the weak.

Other tools of evolution are skydiving, snowboarding, riding high performance motorcycles and unprotected sex to name but a few. Firearms may also be considered a case in point of the difference between use and abuse.

I have been stupid many times and have thankfully survived the experience. I will undoubtedly continue to be stupid on occaision. This is called 'learning from ones mistakes". You either do this or evolution catches up with you.

It is my right to be stupid and should I choose not to learn I will die or face other penalties. Much against my personal predjudice the rest of the human race also has that right.

Bill.

Now leaving this post because the last few pages have made the duelling banjoes bit from deliverance play in the back of my head.

 

[HankB]

I have sort of a semi-libertarian opinion on drugs.

If an adult is stupid enough to pop pills, shoot up, snort, or smoke stuff like LSD, crack, hemp, heroin, or whatever, that's his business, so long as he doesn't endanger others - say, by driving a car when "high" - or neglect his legitimate responsibilities. (An example would be providing for his kids.)

Society as a whole has NO repeat NO obligation to treat the drug-using adult for overdoses or addiction. If you make a bad decision or choose a lifestyle that's bad for you, tough - the taxpayers have NO obligation to pay for your bad choices through taxpayer-funded rehab, counseling, or whatever.

If you OD and keel over on the sidewalk, the street crew can pick up your carcass as they would a dead deer and haul your worthless remains off to the dump.

That's for adults.

Selling or giving drugs to a kid would merit the death sentence - and this would be vigorously enforced.

 

[Ryder]

why_me

"Di hydrogen monoxide? Just wondering cause i know a lot of people use it with no problem and i never heard of any one having serious problems."

As with all drugs use is not a problem. Abuse is.

- You would need to chug down about three quarts or more all at once. You would become drowsy, lightheaded, and weak. You would have trouble with coordination and thinking straight. You would act and appear as though you just stumbled out of the local bar. Do not go home to sleep it off. Get treatment or risk going into convulsions, a coma, or even death.

 

[why_me]

Ryder would you like to try di hydrogen monoxide?

Just tell me where you live i have some sources, i can share. I will tell you where to legally get it without ID or anything. Stuff is pretty cool and harmless if not abused. I mean seriously i let my kid try it. She likes it.
It would take alot to OD. Its pretty safe.

 

[sctman800]

I just read a piece in this morning's paper by Stanley Crouch who writes for N. Y. Daily News about legalizing drugs for a safer world. He is a black man who also believes that some people will always use drugs, that cannot be stopped. What can be stopped is PROFIT and this is what drives the violence. Once again, drugs are here to stay legal or not, but they are not as bad as the violence that comes because they are illegal, that can and should be changed to save lives. Jim.

 

[DRZinn]

Guys - dihydrogen monoxide can kill you. If abused, it can lead to hyponatremia, which can kill.

Also - all you guys are arguing practical matters like how much we spend on the war on drugs, how much crime would decrease (most of us) or increase (CWatson) if they were legalized, etc. I don't even look at it that way anymore. I've gotten it, along with so many other things, down to the essence of the matter.

I've never used any illegal drug except alcohol and tobacco while underage, but here's the deal: THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN OR CAN'T DO. Period. End of f---in' story.

 

[why_me]

Di hydrogen monoxide abuse is a myth

I have used di hydrogen monoxide along time now and i dont feel addicted.
There is nothing wrong with daily use especially after a hard hot day. Its relaxing refreshing. Makes me feel good.
Doczinn im proud of you and guys like you. Freedom is not a gray area, you are either free to make choices or you are not. Period. If what i do doesnt affect anyone else then i should be able to make my own choice.

 

[cordex]

Why me,
Everyone familiar with the drug scene is aware that DHMO - while commonly used to little ill-effect - is widly abused. It is dangerous enough that people can accidentally kill themselves while using it in what would otherwise be a harmless manner. If the user's concentration is disturbed while getting their "fix", they can misapply it resulting in convulsions throughout the respiratory and digestive systems. This reaction can be treated, but why allow our children to risk this kind of poison? Huffing concentrated DHMO in any substantial amount WILL result in death unless treated.

The worst part about DHMO is that it is truly a gateway drug. Nearly 100% of drug users have at some point at least tried DHMO. Almost all are still habitual users. Yet the government does nothing. DHMO poisoning killed over 4,146 people in 2002 - a quarter of those victims were 18 years of age or younger.

Of course, DHMO is pervasive enough that no one will ever propose banning it. The government has gone so far as to profit directly from the DHMO trade.





Everything's a joke to you guys, isn't it? It's not about what you say, it's all about how you say it. "Hard drugs", "Soft drugs", "recreational drugs", "legal drugs", "illegal drugs", "not really a drug" - different meanings to different people.

 

[DRZinn]

A small overdose of DMHO in the wrong form can cause penumonia. A large overdose can kill, or cause the aforementioned hyponatremia, which also can lead to death.

I use it, but I can quit whenever I want.

 

[CWatson]

Justin,

Looks like the "Highroad" means something all together on this thread.Seems to me everything I said that that you may think was out of line was replies to what I thought was out of line to me,no big deal to me sorry it was to you.



CW

 

[Orthonym]

Um, guys, see my post above?

In which I think I wrote something like,

Grownups may ingest whatever they like. If what they've ingested causes them to act in a non-grownup manner, we treat them as we would children found running loose and making trouble. This model has worked for acute recreational alcohol poisoning for, I reckon, a thousand or so years. I think it would work for other drugs, and other druggies, just as well.

That DHMO is pretty bad stuff. I found a six-pack of Shiner Bock tonight, in this benighted unreal Florida town, believe it or not. Got home, opened the first bottle, and thought, "***? This doesn't taste like the last S B I had back in '92!"

Do y'all suppose someone has been adulterating it with DHMO?

 

[Firethorn]

CWatson, you might want to look up the words "Sarcasm", "Parody", and "Hyperbole"

 

[CWatson]

Yep Firethorn even I know what they mean(see sarcasm),but hey they only travel one way in this thread and not from the single voice of disagreement.

CW