poor customer service
- Thread starter Kurastduuks
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I think that all the manufacturers we are talking about provide a fair warranty . They have to be responsible with freebies because at some point we all have to realize that freebies are lumped back into the cost of the product that we buy. We have to decide if we are buying a set of dies or if we are purchasing a no BS warranty. Look at the cost of Dillon dies and decides what your paying for.
Captaingyro
Member
All the time. And you know, whenever I eat cole slaw or chili he gets real gassy.
jwrowland77
Member
Hornady's customer service has always treated me right. I don't know about the other two but I'm sure they're top notch as well.
I broke a the sizer that goes inside the neck, called Hornady up, told them it was my fault and inquired as to how I can buy a new one. They sent me two that same day free of charge.
As far as the special seater, that would have been like if I had called them and told them I was loading my .308 for precision, and told them that they should have included the micro adjust in their die sets. They're in business to make money, as all businesses are. Just order the other seating stem you need and get to loading, just like I did when I bought my micro adjust stem for my .308 dies.
That's what's wrong with folks nowadays, always wanting something for nothing.
I broke a the sizer that goes inside the neck, called Hornady up, told them it was my fault and inquired as to how I can buy a new one. They sent me two that same day free of charge.
As far as the special seater, that would have been like if I had called them and told them I was loading my .308 for precision, and told them that they should have included the micro adjust in their die sets. They're in business to make money, as all businesses are. Just order the other seating stem you need and get to loading, just like I did when I bought my micro adjust stem for my .308 dies.
That's what's wrong with folks nowadays, always wanting something for nothing.
I've experienced great customer service from all three listed as well as from Lee. The only time I ever had beef with customer service was with Lyman, but that was about two and a half decades ago and my problem then was that I was basically called an idiot and idiots don't like being made to look like an idiot. 
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Kurastduuks
Member
Point taken guys I'm sorry to have seemed course or hard to please. Also was unaware that I had taken a bad tone with THR or any members. I will assure you I was perfectly nice to the customer service reps I spoke with. They have a job to do and it's no fault of theirs if I disagree with any part of the policy. Ill just keep my yapper shut in the future!
redneck2
Member
I'm the same way. If it's their fault, I expect them to pay. If it's my fault, I expect me to pay.
FWIW... I bought a Dillon 450 second hand (but never used). Powder measure was defective (leaked powder). They sent a new measure and all the associated parts N/C. That's why I've got a 550 and a lot of stuff to go with it, and my SIL and best friend also have them.
Had some Hornady dies that left crimp rings around the tips of the bullets I was loading. Called Hornady CS, and they basically said they were made for Hornady bullets and since I was not using Hornady bullets, it was tough sh**. Gave them away and got Dillon and Lee dies, which work great. There will never be another piece of Hornady stuff in my shop.
FWIW... I bought a Dillon 450 second hand (but never used). Powder measure was defective (leaked powder). They sent a new measure and all the associated parts N/C. That's why I've got a 550 and a lot of stuff to go with it, and my SIL and best friend also have them.
Had some Hornady dies that left crimp rings around the tips of the bullets I was loading. Called Hornady CS, and they basically said they were made for Hornady bullets and since I was not using Hornady bullets, it was tough sh**. Gave them away and got Dillon and Lee dies, which work great. There will never be another piece of Hornady stuff in my shop.
carbine85
Member
RCBS rocks. They have replaced parts that I lost or broke. They have provide upgraded and improved parts at no charge. I can't complain. I'll buy RCBS before anything else if they have what I want.
ole farmerbuck
Member
Lee .223 dies wont seat v-max bullets deep enough. I calld Lee and was told it was because of the shape of the bullets. I sent them some of the short stems after they sent me longer ones. Weird they arent made to seat v-max's.(this is on the collet dies)
RCBS service has been exemplary. There has only been one time that they've asked for shipping on a fix, other than that everything has been free. Quick. No questions asked.
There are very few businesses anywhere, in any industry, that meet the customer service standards of the reloading equipment manufacturers.
There are very few businesses anywhere, in any industry, that meet the customer service standards of the reloading equipment manufacturers.
788Ham
Member
cfullgraf,
If you're still following this thread: I've also used 0000 steel wool, wrapped around a pencil, inserted into a drill motor, gently inserted and polished the insides of a couple of dies, nothing harsh mind you, but did clean up a small spot that was scratching the brass. Might try this too.
If you're still following this thread: I've also used 0000 steel wool, wrapped around a pencil, inserted into a drill motor, gently inserted and polished the insides of a couple of dies, nothing harsh mind you, but did clean up a small spot that was scratching the brass. Might try this too.
Dr.Zubrato
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You know, I've never liked most RCBS products, but I am envious of their customer service. I think the Lee CS is crap, and I'm about to try them out for real this time, my steel toggle link for my press broke and I'm hoping they stand behind their product..
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I have nothing but good to say about RCBS but on the other hand I have no use for Lyman.
blarby
Member
Amen.
Every time I call RCBS- replacements come. Same with lee. Never had anything replaced by Hornady- i've never bought anything from them besides bullets and a book.
Still fighting with nosler over these danged new 22 bullets- and its pretty much turned me off to them forever.
Dave Bulla
Member
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- May 4, 2010
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I've had good dealings with both Lee and RCBS. The Lee items were not warranty stuff, just me trying to get someone on the phone to help me order some stuff I needed. They got a tech guy on, we talked, I ordered a bunch of parts I needed and it was all in my mailbox within two days.
My one call to RCBS was because I bought a used powder measure for my Dad off ebay and when it arrived the green plastic powder container was cracked. I just called asking about the price to buy a new one and they said they'd send one out free of charge. That was pretty nice and falls into what I call the "above and beyond" warranty category. It's also a great marketing tactic because I now get a nice warm fuzzy feeling when I think of how I've been treated by RCBS so I'm far more likely to buy more of their stuff in the future. Leupold scopes fall into the same category along with snap on tools, double bull ground blinds etc. All items that cost more than many others but items that the makers stand behind with great customer service.
In my opinion, most warranties are not there to cover user errors, they are there for the case where a part being used correctly fails due to some type of manufacturing flaw. Say a part breaks and there was a defect in manufacture that caused it. Maybe threads wer cut improperly, a hole was bored out of alignment etc. That's an item covered by warranty. On the other hand, say a part breaks because bubba decided to tighten the snot out of it with channel locks and broke it... NOT a warranty item. Or how about someone lets their dies sit around and rust then when they use them they get a case stuck. Not the die makers fault. You get the idea.
My one call to RCBS was because I bought a used powder measure for my Dad off ebay and when it arrived the green plastic powder container was cracked. I just called asking about the price to buy a new one and they said they'd send one out free of charge. That was pretty nice and falls into what I call the "above and beyond" warranty category. It's also a great marketing tactic because I now get a nice warm fuzzy feeling when I think of how I've been treated by RCBS so I'm far more likely to buy more of their stuff in the future. Leupold scopes fall into the same category along with snap on tools, double bull ground blinds etc. All items that cost more than many others but items that the makers stand behind with great customer service.
In my opinion, most warranties are not there to cover user errors, they are there for the case where a part being used correctly fails due to some type of manufacturing flaw. Say a part breaks and there was a defect in manufacture that caused it. Maybe threads wer cut improperly, a hole was bored out of alignment etc. That's an item covered by warranty. On the other hand, say a part breaks because bubba decided to tighten the snot out of it with channel locks and broke it... NOT a warranty item. Or how about someone lets their dies sit around and rust then when they use them they get a case stuck. Not the die makers fault. You get the idea.
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41 Mag
Member
I have at least several tools from RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Lee, and a couple of others. My biggies are my 4x4 press which RCBS has sent out replacement parts for on multiple occasions when I was running it hard. Nothing big just the normal wear parts, but all it took was a call. I have had them send out stems for dies, and such, and I also have had them send me a new bucket for my Sidewinder tumbler which for what ever reason ate the end off the original after some dozen years of rolling who knows how many cases.
Lee has fixed, replaced, or sent out new molds, handles, two presses, so no issues with them either I did have to pay shipping though on the presses. Whooppee.
Hornady has replaced a couple of pieces in their dies sets over the years which were wrong when I got the sets.
Most of them, like mentioned are eager to please, but at the same time they usually want the offending part back for research to find if there was a material or other defect in them. Who knows they might have had a bad batch of plastic on the inertia pullers and are simply trying to determine what the issue might be. I've broken one from RCBS, and one from Midway, both times I simply ordered a new one. I figure that I have some responsibility for taking care of things myself along the way. Other things they might simply need to polish, or if they can repair it they will if not they usually send you another one. So what if it cost you $5-6 to send it in, verses $30 or more for a new set.
Both Ruger and Remington have done me well on issues I have had with their rifles. Both said "you will receive a return shipping label soon just box them up securely in a plain wrapped box and apply the label." Both came back pretty much the same way all nicely cleaned up and repaired. Neither cost me anything more than the trip to the PO.
Lee has fixed, replaced, or sent out new molds, handles, two presses, so no issues with them either I did have to pay shipping though on the presses. Whooppee.
Hornady has replaced a couple of pieces in their dies sets over the years which were wrong when I got the sets.
Most of them, like mentioned are eager to please, but at the same time they usually want the offending part back for research to find if there was a material or other defect in them. Who knows they might have had a bad batch of plastic on the inertia pullers and are simply trying to determine what the issue might be. I've broken one from RCBS, and one from Midway, both times I simply ordered a new one. I figure that I have some responsibility for taking care of things myself along the way. Other things they might simply need to polish, or if they can repair it they will if not they usually send you another one. So what if it cost you $5-6 to send it in, verses $30 or more for a new set.
Both Ruger and Remington have done me well on issues I have had with their rifles. Both said "you will receive a return shipping label soon just box them up securely in a plain wrapped box and apply the label." Both came back pretty much the same way all nicely cleaned up and repaired. Neither cost me anything more than the trip to the PO.
stu1ritter
Member
Humm, my experience with both of these companies is very different than the OP's. I called Hornady one day to buy a new plastic hopper for my LnL powder measure. I was too lazy to pull the powder after use and so the plastic sorta semi melted at the base. I wanted to buy it. They wouldn't sell it to me, they would only send it free, on their nickle, AND they sent me two of them. RCBS, I bought Cowboy dies for .32 S&W Long which work really well but I like nuts for adjusting rather than brass lock rings. I called them up to order the nuts and they refused payment and just sent them.
How much customer service do you want??
Stu
How much customer service do you want??
Stu
GBExpat
Member
I have dealt with RCBS CS on a few occasions and they have sent me replacement parts at no cost to me (on two occasions the small parts were lost or broken and I was calling to see if I could buy replacements). In my experience RCBS Customer Service ranks "up there" with the ones to beat.
If I had a brand new, unused, RCBS resizing die that scratched my brass the first time I used it, I have no doubt, from these past experiences, that they would replace/fix the item at no charge to me.
However, if it is an issue that has developed over time & during use, I would be happy to share some of the cost with them for getting it fixed.
Reading the posts in this thread, it looks to me like rcmodel may have nailed the cause and given you a solution.
FWIW
If I had a brand new, unused, RCBS resizing die that scratched my brass the first time I used it, I have no doubt, from these past experiences, that they would replace/fix the item at no charge to me.
However, if it is an issue that has developed over time & during use, I would be happy to share some of the cost with them for getting it fixed.
Reading the posts in this thread, it looks to me like rcmodel may have nailed the cause and given you a solution.
FWIW
RealGun
Member
Have to agree with Kurastduuks, because when in doubt the customer is right, i.e. the product is defective and under warranty versus no proof that damage was not due to use. It is a relatively trivial charge ($5 and postage). If the company finds itself abused, then the suggestion of serializing and registration would make sense. Problem is, the dies don't cost enough to justify that level of control. The company should either improve quality control, increase prices to cover service expense, or just eat the cost of keeping customers happy. It is often true that "if you lose one customer, you lose six".
Dr.Zubrato
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My experience with Lee customer service is as follows:
Regarding the mold blocks: I had some lead splash between my blocks I wasn't able to find, and called asking for someone knowledgeable about molds seeking advice. Guy didn't have any real suggestions, I had to lead him by asking about things I've read online to make sure I wouldn't hurt my molds. When I finally asked "If I'm not able to find it, could I ship it to you guys to have it checked out?"
"I guess. But we're going to send it right back to you when we find it within spec"
"What's the spec?"
"Between .355 to .360"
"So I would have to buy a sizer, and size every single bullet?"
"Yes."
I was perfectly nice and respectful to this gentleman over the phone, but he still treated me like I was somehow lying to him or trying to scam him when all I wanted were suggestions from the horses mouth about not damaging something aluminum, and in the end pretty much suggested if I paid shipping to send it in I'd waste my money and their time, and I should probably just buy another Lee product.
The block is advertised as 'shoot as cast' and it isn't the 20 bucks for the sizer folks, I just don't have the time to size 2000+ bullets. Absolutely ridiculous.
I fixed the block with the advice of some persons online, and managed to get the mold to drop back at .356/.357
Don't get me wrong, I love lee products, I just seriously dislike their customer service tactics.
NEW INFO: It really really depends on who you get on the phone at Lee. This just happened:
Jake:
Thanks for sending in the photo. We'll get a replacement sent out to you in tomorrow's mail.
Thank You,
Laine
Customer Service
I love Lee products, and I just saw a side of their CS dept I was sure existed! Thanks Lee!
Regarding the mold blocks: I had some lead splash between my blocks I wasn't able to find, and called asking for someone knowledgeable about molds seeking advice. Guy didn't have any real suggestions, I had to lead him by asking about things I've read online to make sure I wouldn't hurt my molds. When I finally asked "If I'm not able to find it, could I ship it to you guys to have it checked out?"
"I guess. But we're going to send it right back to you when we find it within spec"
"What's the spec?"
"Between .355 to .360"
"So I would have to buy a sizer, and size every single bullet?"
"Yes."
I was perfectly nice and respectful to this gentleman over the phone, but he still treated me like I was somehow lying to him or trying to scam him when all I wanted were suggestions from the horses mouth about not damaging something aluminum, and in the end pretty much suggested if I paid shipping to send it in I'd waste my money and their time, and I should probably just buy another Lee product.
The block is advertised as 'shoot as cast' and it isn't the 20 bucks for the sizer folks, I just don't have the time to size 2000+ bullets. Absolutely ridiculous.
I fixed the block with the advice of some persons online, and managed to get the mold to drop back at .356/.357
Don't get me wrong, I love lee products, I just seriously dislike their customer service tactics.
NEW INFO: It really really depends on who you get on the phone at Lee. This just happened:
Jake:
Thanks for sending in the photo. We'll get a replacement sent out to you in tomorrow's mail.
Thank You,
Laine
Customer Service
I love Lee products, and I just saw a side of their CS dept I was sure existed! Thanks Lee!
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"The company should either improve quality control, increase prices to cover service expense, or just eat the cost of keeping customers happy."
None of this really falls under a QC issue. Bad items make it out of every factory and every company. Products do wear in time and fail. For every die out there that is still going from 1960 there are ones that has failed. The moment prices increase we are all in here yelling that the price has jumped and how horrible Company X is. You can't eat every cost, especially for a customer that refuses to show any ownership that is how you retire early poor.
The customer is always right, but the customer can't go into every interaction with that viewpoint feeling they are owed everything without any cost.
I recently had a mishap with my bow and ended up dry firing a brand new bow three days after purchase. I ruined the cam and I am having the limbs (for my own comfort even though there is no evidence they cracked), string and cables replaced at a cost of $230. Now PSE would do all of this free of charge had I gone in and said "hey I drew the bow, the string rolled off the cam, and dry fired". The fact of the matter is I drew the bow with no arrow in it, I messed up and released the string causing the dry fire. Should PSE be eating this charge? Should the cost of my $700 bow now be $800 to cover morons like me? Should I lie so I see no upfront cost, but the next time I go to buy a bow I am now looking at that $100 increase?
In the end the local shop is eating about $75-$100 in labor/products to get the bow tuned to me and ready to go because I was honest in my mistake and made them laugh.
I will say though it was hard explaining this to the wife
None of this really falls under a QC issue. Bad items make it out of every factory and every company. Products do wear in time and fail. For every die out there that is still going from 1960 there are ones that has failed. The moment prices increase we are all in here yelling that the price has jumped and how horrible Company X is. You can't eat every cost, especially for a customer that refuses to show any ownership that is how you retire early poor.
The customer is always right, but the customer can't go into every interaction with that viewpoint feeling they are owed everything without any cost.
I recently had a mishap with my bow and ended up dry firing a brand new bow three days after purchase. I ruined the cam and I am having the limbs (for my own comfort even though there is no evidence they cracked), string and cables replaced at a cost of $230. Now PSE would do all of this free of charge had I gone in and said "hey I drew the bow, the string rolled off the cam, and dry fired". The fact of the matter is I drew the bow with no arrow in it, I messed up and released the string causing the dry fire. Should PSE be eating this charge? Should the cost of my $700 bow now be $800 to cover morons like me? Should I lie so I see no upfront cost, but the next time I go to buy a bow I am now looking at that $100 increase?
In the end the local shop is eating about $75-$100 in labor/products to get the bow tuned to me and ready to go because I was honest in my mistake and made them laugh.
I will say though it was hard explaining this to the wife
RealGun
Member
These other anecdotes may be pertinent, maybe not. Various buttons were pushed, I guess. The actual topic here is what the OP wrote in fact, and the company in question is RCBS, Hornady,or Lyman.
To me, the real issue is whether there should be a charge. I do not dispute the burden of having to pay postage to return something. If the company is assuming some responsibility, it should pay the return postage after the repair without a bogus fee to cover it. But if ones general complaint is protesting having to pay postage from their end to return something, get over it, because sharing shipping expense is the customary way of doing business, certainly on small items.
To me, the real issue is whether there should be a charge. I do not dispute the burden of having to pay postage to return something. If the company is assuming some responsibility, it should pay the return postage after the repair without a bogus fee to cover it. But if ones general complaint is protesting having to pay postage from their end to return something, get over it, because sharing shipping expense is the customary way of doing business, certainly on small items.
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ranger335v
Member
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"I was under the impression a lifetime warranty for the original owner meant a lifetime warranty for the original owner...call me crazy."
Perhaps. I've been reloading since '65; I have owned a LOT of tools from every maker today (except Dillon) and a lot from makers no longer around. I've never had a defective tool from anyone. I do know people who have tho and it seems the makers all stand behind actual manufactoring defects for life and, some times, user screw ups too.
But is it fair to feel that after something has been purchased the maker should forever protect users even from the effects of their own misuse? If so, that would be unique to reloading; can you imagine the cost af an auto with a lifetime warrantee, including covering the effects of the owners failure to change oil, or replace brake shoes, filters, hoses, belts, etc.?
Bullets in a 7.65 pistol round tend to be light. Light bullets are difficult to pull with an impact puller unless we seat them a few thou deeper to break the metal-to-metal grip first. A LOT of people seem to try to drive the bullets out with arm force rather than just using a light, high speed flick of the wrist; it's easy to bend or bust a hammer puller when it's misused!
Personally, I'm quite happy to keep reloading tool purchase prices reasonable by providing warrantee service for actual defects and paying for the consequences of my screw ups, like galled dies due to a lack of case lube. And I don't expect every maker's tools to work with everything that may be on the market, or may later come on the market, without adjustment or additions. YMMV.
Perhaps. I've been reloading since '65; I have owned a LOT of tools from every maker today (except Dillon) and a lot from makers no longer around. I've never had a defective tool from anyone. I do know people who have tho and it seems the makers all stand behind actual manufactoring defects for life and, some times, user screw ups too.
But is it fair to feel that after something has been purchased the maker should forever protect users even from the effects of their own misuse? If so, that would be unique to reloading; can you imagine the cost af an auto with a lifetime warrantee, including covering the effects of the owners failure to change oil, or replace brake shoes, filters, hoses, belts, etc.?
Bullets in a 7.65 pistol round tend to be light. Light bullets are difficult to pull with an impact puller unless we seat them a few thou deeper to break the metal-to-metal grip first. A LOT of people seem to try to drive the bullets out with arm force rather than just using a light, high speed flick of the wrist; it's easy to bend or bust a hammer puller when it's misused!
Personally, I'm quite happy to keep reloading tool purchase prices reasonable by providing warrantee service for actual defects and paying for the consequences of my screw ups, like galled dies due to a lack of case lube. And I don't expect every maker's tools to work with everything that may be on the market, or may later come on the market, without adjustment or additions. YMMV.
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