Poor Mans Scout

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SoundWave

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Greetings everyone, I am intrested in creation a scout-type rifle, but don't want to spend an arm and a leg like most factory scouts on the market.

I was thinking about putting it on a old mil-surp bolt action rifle, since they are cheap, easy to find, and are battle-tested. I just didn't know which rifle to start with...

Should I use a Mosin-Nagant? Mauser? Enfield? Swiss Schmidt-Rubin? Should I replace the stock? Where can I buy a butt ammunition holder? Scout scope mount? Which scope should I use?

Any help would make me your best friend. :D
 
I like Mauser 98's. They are tough as nails, fast, accurate enough, chambered in a variety of good rounds and can be found cheap.

Take a good, cheap one chambered in .308 with a good bore, chop the barrel to 18", remove the rear sight sleeve and Ashley makes a sleeve to put on at the same place to hold a scout scope.

Leave the bolt handle straight, use the stripper clip guides to load it if you wish and you have a cheap, effective scout rifle. Plenty of replacement stocks are available if you desire.

Anyway, that's one way.
 
I built mine beginning with an Ishapore Enfield 2A1 in 7.62.

Purchased the rifle for $80, talking the store down considerably because the wood was "terrible". Then I threw away all the wood, and after having my gunsmith cut the barrel back to 19" and re-crowning I mounted it in an ATI synthetic stock. Added a scope mount that replaces the rear sight, added a 2.5X pistol scope, and I was good to go. The Ishy accepts the stripper clips from the Aussie ammo, and I was also able to pick up a couple of 10 round mags to complement the original 12 rounder.

The Ishapores are painted instead of blued, and a bottle of Chevrolet touch up paint dd a god job of "refinishing" the worn spots.

Try it, you will like it.
 
Tell you what I'm fixing to do with a 1940 VZ-24. B-Square makes a scope mount for the K98k and variants- you remove the rear sight from its base and put their base on that. It pins where the rear tangent was. Has two screw to level it up. Leave the front sight alone and you won't have to pay a gunsmith for any of this and you won't have done anything you can't undo. Use a long eye releif scope, like maybe a fixed 4x pistol scope.
 
I have a Czech VZ24 (purchased from Empire Arms) with a B-Square scout mount and an Aimpoint Comp ML2. I have yet to purchase a scout scope; the Aimpoint was taken off my AR.

I used handloads to verify mount's accuracy. Sierra 150gr .323 Soft Points, 49.0gr H4895 in Winchester brass with Winchester primers. I currently get 1" groups at 50yds. It holds about 1.5" at 100yds. I believe my Aimpoint has a 2MOA dot. I chroned my loads today, actually, and they range from 2790-2820fps.

I bought an NCStar generic 2.5-7x handgun scope because people on Parallax's C&R Forum claim they have good luck with them. I don't have much faith in a $40 scope, but if it fails, I'm only out $40. I'm going to try this out on my VZ24.

I also have a Darrell's Scout Mount for my M38 (http://p077.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm85). I haven't installed the mount yet because I don't have a scope for it, nor do I have any dies or components to handload 7.62x54R, so I won't be able to test with decent ammo.

I plan on getting a K31 Swiss next month and get a Darrell's Scout Mount for it.

In my opinion, get a surplus Mauser. Check with S&K (http://www.scopemounts.com) and see which Mausers they built a scout mount for. The B-Square seems to be holding up ok, but I don't have faith in the screws that hold the mount to the rear sight base. One guy I met at my club range who has a B-Square on an M38 says he sheared the screws. I stripped one of mine because I torqued it too much (35 in/lbs, which didn't seem like too much to me), but it's holding because I was lucky enough to have loctited both screws. Supposedly S&K are better than B-Square for mounts, but I never handled one myself.

The K-31 is a good option, too.

Either way with 8mm Mauser or 7.5 Swiss, you should definitely handload.

As far as scopes go, Leupold and Burris both make scout scopes. Or you could go the red dot method. The Ultradot is an inexpensive, quality red dot sight for under $150.
 
I made mine out of a Mosin M44 with the Bayonet/front sight assembly removed.
Rifle-$40
Scope and mount-$60
Stock w/ pad and precut-down-$10

Not too bad for a $110 Scout Rifle.

092756.jpg
 
I have made "bargain" Scouts using the Ching Ring mount with K98 Mausers, No.4 MkI Lee-Enfields, and Remington Model Sevens. I had plans to make up others on a M96 Swedish Mauser and a Krag-Jorgensen, but never got around to it. A forward mount is particularly appropriate to scoping rifles with split rear receiver bridges or straight bolt handles that preclude traditional scope mounting like the Krag, as well as the Mosin-Nagant and others.

If I were going to make another one, I'd try to find a K98 Mauser in .308 (7x57 would also be appropriate, though less "universal" in concept than the current NATO standard).
 
Follow up post to previous reply

Here's a couple generic pictures I took of my Czech VZ24 this morning. Click on the pictures for 1024x768 resolution pictures.


 
Thanks for all the good info guys! Where do I go about finding a mauser in .308?
Click to expand...

Samco Global has the Guardia Civil Spanish Mauser in .308 for $120 (http://www.samcoglobal.com). I don't know of any other .308 Mausers from any of the C&R dealers. Maybe someone could point some out.

Don't be afraid to go with 8mm Mauser. It's comparable to the 30-06 and is very easy to reload for.
 
Not too many mausers in .308 lying about.

1. Maybe an old Israeli K98 converted to .308
Not hardly any left in distributor's hands, just some "u-fix-its."

2. Spanish FR8 (1898 mauser based)
Already been converted to 7.62NATO with quality rear aperture sight...but no rear sight mount in the old location suitable for scout scope mounting. Also, none left at distributors and those in private hands are getting pricey ($300+)

3. Spanish 1893, 1916, model 95, Guardia Civil, FR7 (1893 mauser-based)
Last time I looked, still some 1916s in distributors' hands. Problem is, they were converted from pre-98 mausers & aren't as strong as 98s. Will chamber .308. 7.62NATO or 7.62CETME. Much CONTENTIOUS debate on the safety of these rifles using 7.62NATO & .308Win cartridges. See http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/spanishinquisition/index.asp

4. Buy a 8x57 mauser & rebarrel

*********************

My advice? Get a Mauser in 8mm & don't look back. 8x57 milsurp ammo is cheapcheapcheap these days & 98 mauser action rifles are available & cheap. Yugo M48 is a case in point.

For an elegant pseudo-scout, go for the K31 Schmidt-Rubin, but be ready to pay a lot more for ammo.
 
Take a look at my thread on this toppic, it's on the same page. I picked up a .308 mauser on a local sale. I just orderd some books to help me do the job. Poor Mans Scout, and Practical Gunsmithing. Amazon books-$40.00 for both shipped.
I am guessing I can do everything, rifle, scope (Burris), mount (xs), peepsight and new front sight for ~$500. The best part is dong the work yourself. The only thing I might send it out for is tocut the barrel. My base gun has been beat enough that I don't mind customizing it.
Tony
 
055063.JPG


This is my Enfield scout. It is one of my favorite rifles. Go here and click on the article, "Saving a Burnt Out Jungle Carbine" to read about it.

This rifle can be put together for a good bit less than what I have in mine if you shop around. I feel that mine was money well spent though!
 
Jaeger

Usually, I'm against slicing and dicing, but everytime I see your Enfield scout I get this "maybe just once" feeling. What kinda groups are you getting with that thing?
 
Thank you! Match loads will do about .75 to 1". Most of my hunting ammo hovers around 1" to 1.25". HXP surplus does about 1.25". I don't think I've had any loads go much over 2".

I intend to install a Can West trigger. I don't expect my groups to improve much but I don't think I'll have to work as hard to achieve them.

If it makes you feel any better, the rifle was a mess when I bought it.
Buy a receiver from Interordinance and go from there. That way you won't feel so guilty.
 
All the hacking and deforming, I can't look.
Click to expand...

I'll have you know there was no hacking, cutting, folding, spindling or mutilating done in the process of making my 'Scout Rifle'.
In fact I have every part that came off still in condition to go back on and return her to her military condition.
So there... nyah nayh nayh :p Pffttt!!


:evil:
 
There's a bubbized #4 Enfield at a local pawn that is marked $90, but it's been there so long I'll bet I could get it cheaper. Action is in good shape, and the bore looks good. Stock looks like it was cut down with a machete. I've always thought the .303 was very under-rated.

Can't imagine why someone would have cut up a jungle carbine, but I guess it worked out well for you, and somehow I don't think your rifle is the least bit ashamed.

Kestryll
Is that a NcStar 2-7X scope? If so, how's it holding up. Just put one on a contender 223 barrel but haven't had a chance to try it out.
 
Jaeger, that is a truely amazing scout! Just the kind of weapon I had in mind!

Thanks for all the info guys!
 
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