Possible oversized WLP primers

[FROGO207]

I was loading some 45 ACP mixed brass this morning. Putting in the primers I noticed 90% of them were hard to seat and thought to myself I didn't have that many PMC or S&B in that bucket of brass did I?? A couple of the PMC I could not even seat the primers. I was using the Lee hand primer like I have for the past 20 or so years without any previous problems. Then I had another tight one and when I looked they were WIN brass. Well the brass I was using had been fired a number of times and the primer pockets should have been loose at best I would think. So I measured the WIN LP primers and they were as close as I could determine the same as some CCI LP and CCI LPM that I had on hand. Now I wish that I had saved a box of the TULA LP primers for comparison. Tried a different bucket of brass and same results---so I am pretty sure it's not the brass. CCI's worked OK in the WIN brass from the first bucket and another different lot of WIN LP primers worked OK also. Slightly larger primers in that lot I think. Lot in question--CNL574G--. Think I will save that 900 left for use when my 44MAG brass has enlarged primer pockets and I can get another loading out of the brass. So a heads up on the primers might be larger than normal. I will email WIN and let them know.

 

[joecil]

It sounds like you have some of the newer lead free brass that use a small pistol primer instead of the standard large pistol. I know Federal as well as some CCI have it though not all. I'm not sure about others like PMC as I've not shot any in a couple of years in 45 ACP.

 

[918v]

No. A small primer pocket will not accept a large primer at all. He's talking about hard seating.

WIN is having QC problems right now. They are selling ammo without flash holes, for example. This is just another symptom of a greater problem.

 

[LiveLife]

I just measured 10 each of Winchester LP (two lots #'s) and Winchester LR primers along with Federal LPM, Wolf and Tula LP/LR primers right at the base rim of the primer cups that will make first contact with the primer pockets:

Winchester LP (Lot # DML877G and SGL363G): .2100"
Winchester LR (Lot # EAL008G): .2100"
Federal LPM (Lot # 2GX751): - .2100"

Wolf LP (Lot # 2-09): .2105" - .2110"
Tula LP (Lot # 15-10: .2105" - .2110"
Tula LR (Lot # 9-10): .2105" - .2110"

Yes, seating these slightly larger diameter Wolf/Tula LP primers take significantly more effort when hand/bench priming and for tighter primer pocket once-fired S&B/RWS 45ACP cases, sometimes not doable hand priming even to flush (and some not even with bench priming). I prefer to seat my primers slightly below flush (.004").

 

[FROGO207]

Mine are .2108-.2109 for the possible bad lot. The CCI's are .2100 .2101 with my dial calipers. I have already reloaded these brass a number of times last year without problems so there are no small primer pockets or newer brass within the container that I know of or can find.

 

[fatcpa]

I'm having the same problem with the last box of Winchester large pistol primers that I bought a month or two ago. Very hard seating compared to the CCI, Federal that I use. Some are so hard that they don't fully seat in my Dillon 550B, so I take them out and finish seating with a RCBS hand primer and a lot of effort. Same for all brands of brass that I have, both new and multiple reloadings.

 

[FROGO207]

What is your lot number? The same as in my post above? Lot # CNL574G is what I am having trouble with. The first 100 from the carton were OK but the second sleeve was a problem.

 

[FROGO207]

Just to make sure it was indeed a problem with the primers I primed 50 10MM brass with them in a batch that I intended to reload today. They went in harder than CCI that I was using for the remainder (plated to match the plated brass) BTW. So I feel it is a problem with the WLP primers due to having to seat them with two thumbs for proper depth.

 

[dagger dog]

Use your camfer tool and camfer the edge of the primer pockets on the cases that are tight, I bet they will slip right in.

 

[FROGO207]

I am not looking for a solution. If so I would just use the 15K of CCI LPP primers up first and never buy any more WIN primers. I was giving a heads up to the rest on the forum that you might have a problem with some of yours if you purchased them recently. Just like others have reported poor quality brass from the newly owned Winchester brand company. FWIW they go in harder than any of the Wolf or Tula primers I have had the need to purchase and then use.

 

[LiveLife]

FWIW they go in harder than any of the Wolf or Tula primers I have had the need to purchase and then use.

Huh? Wait, are you saying the Winchester primers you have on hand are harder to seat than larger cup (.2105" - .2110") Wolf/Tula primers?

Could you measure the cup diameter of several Winchester primers for us? If they are indeed larger than .2105"-.2110", then I think you should be calling Winchester customer service for out-of-spec primers when they should be around .2100". No wonder you are having issues with them!

 

[FROGO207]

Well lets see--Random sample of the remaining 8 sleeves. I did use the rest of the sleeve I measured before in that 10 mm brass that had some that measured .2108-.2109. Just now I picked 8 in each sleeve, the four corners and 4 center ones for a good sample. All but 5 were .2100, 3 were .2104, 2 were a strong .2102. None I measured were over .2104 at this time. I will measure the whole bunch this weekend and see if there are any more really out of spec ones but I do think that I will find some more of them. Now I wish that I had not used the bad sleeve up.:banghead: I may have crushed the others when I tried to seat them and that may be why they were so large. Yes I made sure I zeroed the dial calipers first and the 10 MM brass was nickle plated but that should not make a difference as it never has before. I already emailed Winchester about this and have no reply as of yet.

 

[popper]

I left some 'hard to seat the primer' brass in the sun and then they allowed primer seating fine. PITA, but works. With business and QC the way it is these days, you need a work-around. I've noticed crimped PP on newer commercial brass also, FWIW.

 

[Snobal]

Lot # DLL857G and # FFL250G seat normally.

BTW, I've had my best 1911 groups with WLP primers and intend to continue using them.

JMHO - YRMV