Possible Whitworth Rifle

[Dustbowl]

Every once in a while somebody will bring me something that just stumps me when it comes to an appraisal or general knowledge. I’ve never been much into the older muzzleloading rifles and shotguns anyway but this one comes as a mystery. I believe this is some kind of Whitworth rifle. Very heavy Octagon barrel with hexagonal bore. But it has problems. The sights have been outright removed and replaced. The brass end cap seems to have been altered and lengthened. And there’s a couple repairs.

Everything I can find on whitworths is military. But this appears to be a more sporting style. Any help would be helpful.

 

[hawg]

Definitely not a Whitworth.

 

[StrawHat]

Even the sporter Whitworth carried a very military flavor with them, with only a few exceptions. That rifle is very decided based on the long rifle of America.

Why are you thinking it is English?

Kevin

 

[l.cutler]

Looks like a pretty typical Ohio style rifle.

 

[Dustbowl]

I guess I just never have seen an octagonal bore on anything other than on a Whitworth. Makes it interesting that it may be an American made gun.

 

[hawg]

I've never seen an octagonal barrel on a Whitworth. They had round barrels with an hexagonal bore.

 

[Dustbowl]

Sorry it’s got a hexagonal bore.

 

[MEHavey]

May have a Whitworth type* bore though.
Is the twist a tight 20:1 ?

(* I'm assuming much smaller bore than 45 )

 

[hawg]

May have a Whitworth type* bore though.
Is the twist a tight 20:1 ?

(* I'm assuming much smaller bore than 45 )

That bore isn't hexagonal, it's rifled.

 

[Acorn Mush]

It appears your rifle has six lands and definite grooves. At first glance it sure looks like a hexagonal bore, but a closer look reveals the land and groove configuration. Whitworth rifles had bores with six flat sides and no grooves.

I hope you are able to get some accurate info on the origin of the rifle.

Mr. Hawg, you type faster than I can.

 

[hawg]

This is a Whitworth bore. It's not rifled.

 

[Dustbowl]

Ah yes ok! Like I said i have no experience with these older historical muzzleloader rifles. I do know trying to find information is hard because there were certainly a lot of rifle makers back then.

 

[MEHavey]

Whitworth rifled canon:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...lGunFront.jpg/300px-PrincessRoyalGunFront.jpg

OP's rifle blown up (digitally ) would appear to show deeper/actual rifling grooves combined with hex bore.

unusual.....

 

[AlexanderA]

The thing that jumps out at me is the excessive drop of the buttstock.

 

[Dustbowl]

@MEHavey i can take a better picture if need be! But yes it appears to be both hex and rifled which strange. Well maybe they thought if rifling is good and hex bore is good, maybe both is better!

The lock is marked R.B. And has scroll work and a bird behind the lock. I’ve found some info R.B. Locks are seen on a lot of rifles from the 1840-1860’s usually around western PA and Ohio. The other thing that sticks out to me is the large thumb screw threaded into the side of the nipple housing to make cleaning the channel easier. But I can’t seem to find another like it.

The drop is quite drastic but if you mount it on your arm and level off, the sights line right up.

 

[hawg]

I've been doing some research. I've seen several guns from the mid 19th century with locks marked RB so apparently whoever RB was he was a lock maker. The guns I've seen were from different builders from different parts of the country or were unmarked. Most builders marked their guns on the top barrel flat. You can take the barrel off and see if there's any markings on the underside but if it's an American made gun there likely won't be anything. The drop in the stock isn't unusual for rifles of the period. The sights being moved was from someone with aging eyes.

 

[hawg]

The bore is not actually hex. Rifling back in the day was cut a lot deeper than modern rifling. It has six lands and grooves that make it look like a hex bore. Going by the pic it appears to be a small bore. Probably a .32, maybe a .36

 

[dave951]

100% NOT Whitworth.

My guess is small local gunshop in the day working from commercially available parts. The drop on the stock is common because the style of shooting was different back then. The butt of the stock is put on the curve of your bicep instead of the shoulder as we've all be taught with modern arms.

 

[StrawHat]

Here is a Whitworth Target rifle.



Kevin