Possibly the Most Noob 1911 Question Ever

[Bobson]

Sooo. Forgive my ignorance.

From everything I've read and understand, the original 1911 (and currently manufactured 1911 clones) is/are single-action. From what I understand, SA (single-action, not Springfield Armory ) pistols require the hammer to be manually cocked back before the trigger is pulled, each shot, which is what makes them SA. On the other hand, on DA pistols, the hammer cocks back automatically after each shot. I'm going to be horribly disappointed if this is incorrect, mostly just because it'll mean I didn't even understand the difference between SA and DA, but such is life, and this topic is bothering me.

That being said, what's the deal with the 1911? If the 1911 is actually SA (and I've read and have understood that it is), why do 1911s not need to be manually cocked before each shot? I mean... I understand that the slide moves to the rear, which allows the spent casing to be ejected, and also re-cocks the hammer. But... wouldn't that make it a double-action pistol?

Like I said, hopelessly confused about this, and have been putting off asking about it from embarrassment.

Thanks.

 

[Walkalong]

It does not matter if you cock the hammer or the slide cocks it, it is single action. To be double action the trigger must be able to cock and release the hammer.

 

[X-Rap]

It's in the trigger not the hammer, single action requires the hammer to be cocked by some movement other than the pull of the trigger, double action occurs when the hammer is drawn back and fires the gun by the motion of the trigger.
A S&W M19 is a good example of both actions, it can be fire by the pull of the trigger only or the hammer can be cocked by hand and fired with the short stroke of the trigger. An example of a duel action pistol would be the Beretta 92, it can be fired in either mod.
Single action examples of each would be the Ruger Blackhawk and the 1911.
There are many others but these should be familiar to most.

 

[Sky]

hahahaha never thought about it in that light!!

Auto-matic-single action....the automatic mean it auto cocks the hammer for you but....

Firstly: cocking of hammer can be done by pulling the hammer back with one of you digits/fingers or by racking the slide (picks bullet from mag) and which cocks and holds the hammer until the trigger is pulled. Trigger will not cock the hammer.

Revolver singe action nothing will cock the hammer except one of your digits...thus nothing auto in the revolver except for turning the cylinder for the next round to be fired.

Double action means you can pull the trigger and it will move the hammer into the firing position. If it is a double action auto it will cock the hammer with trigger pull and then the auto function via the slide will take over the auto cock for you on the next round to be fired..

Might not have worded that crystal clear but maybe that helps.

hahahah these guys are fast or I am a slow typer!

 

[ugaarguy]

Single action and double action refer to the actions the trigger performs. The Brits used to call DA trigger cocking. DA performs the two actions of cocking the hammer, and releasing the hammer. SA performs the single action of releasing the hammer - whether you've cocked the hammer manually as on a revolver, or the rearward movement of the slide on an auto, like a 1911, cocks the hammer for you. The DA semi-autos you're thinking of are DA/SA - chambering a round cocks them, and they're decoked for carry (as opposed safety engaged while staying cocked on SA semi-autos). The first shot from the decocked hammer is fired DA, and subsequent shots are fired SA from hammer which has been cocked by the recoiling slide.

 

[KAS1981]

Single action: The trigger does not operate the hammer.

Double action: The trigger can operate the hammer.

Simple as that. The terms do not apply to any other function of the pistol, be it a revolver or auto.

 

[Bobson]

Sweet, thanks a lot guys. I've got it now.

 

[rcmodel]

SA pistols require the hammer to be manually cocked back before the trigger is pulled, each shot
I've got it now.

Not sure you got it quit yet, or not.

With either a SA or DA/SA pistol, the hammer is cocked by the slide when the gun is loaded the first time.
Then re-cocked by the recoiling slide again each time the gun fires.

With either, you have the option of lowering the hammer and not firing the round you loaded.
In the case of a DA, pulling the trigger then cocks the hammer and fires the gun DA, after which it reverts to SA on all succeeding shots.

The SA would need to be manually cocked with your thumb only for the first shot, then it would re-cock itself each succeeding shot just like the DA.

If you hadn't have lowered the hammer when you loaded it, your thumb would never need to cock it.

rc

 

[ahil925]

For Revolvers:

Single Actions require the hammer to be manually cocked back (which also advances the cylinder) after each shot to be able to fire the next. Thumb the hammer to make it go.

Double Actions allow you to operate the revolver in the same manner as a SA. It also allows you to simply pull the trigger (with a longer and heavier trigger pull) which will advance the cylinder and cock then drop the hammer. Thumb the hammer or just keep pulling the trigger.

For Automatics: Many Automatics, like SAs and DAs, will automatically cock the hammer/striker after each shot via movement of the slide/bolt. Some, like Double-Action-Only's (DAO), dont and require a long and heavier trigger pull to cock and release the striker/hammer. Some are sorta hybrids that automatically half or partially cock (Preload) the striker (don't think any preloaded hammer fired automatics exist), so that you have a trigger pull that is lighter them most DOA but still require a movement of the slide/bolt to fire.

 

[rcmodel]

But with the exception of the Springfield XD, striker fired pistols are not SA, DA, or DAO.

The XD is truly a SA, because the striker is fully cocked all the time and the trigger doesn't cock any portion of it.

Glocks and Smigmas are only partially cocked by the slide, and the trigger finishes it.
They are properly called a pre-set striker trigger.
They have no second strike capability like a true DA, and you can't fully cock them manually like a true SA.

rc

 

[ahil925]

There are a few Taurus striker fired that are DAO, in that the striker is not cocked at all by the slide. Also iirc they also make a pre-set/preloaded style pistol that can second strike in a DAO-like manner if the first strike fails. I'm sure there are other companies with something similar.

Fair note, alot of people will call pre-set/preloaded pistol like glocks DAO.

 

[Radagast]

Revolver single action:
Pulling the trigger will only release the hammer, firing the gun. Hence a Single Action. Thumbing back the hammer is required to cock the gun and to rotate the cylinder prior to each shot. Common examples are the Ruger Single Six, Ruger Blackhawk, Colt Single Action Army.

Revolver double action: can be operated as above, or the trigger can be pulled through a long arc, rotating the cylinder, cocking the hammer and firing the gun. The trigger pull both cocks and fires the gun. Hence Double Action.
Common guns are The Ruger GP100, S&W 686.

Revolver Double Action Only:
These guns have the hammer completely concealed in a 'hump' on the back of the gun (S&W 640) or the hammer spur is missing so they cannot be thumb cocked (some Taurus small framed guns). The internal sear notch that allows the hammer to be locked back in the cocked position is also missing. Guns with these features can only be cocked and fired by pulling the trigger. As the option to shoot the gun in single action has been removed they are refered to double action only.

Revolver Semi Automatic Single Action:
Rare. The barrel and cylinder recoil on the frame, cocking the gun. The Webley Fosbery from before World War I is the most famous version. They are semi automatic because firing the gun causes the next chamber to be rotated in line with the barrel, ready to fire.


Pistol Semi automatic Single Action:
Cycling the slide loads a round into the chamber and cocks the hammer. pulling the trigger only releases the hammer and fires the gun. Recoil works the slide, ejecting the spent case and cocking the hammer. As the slide runs forward again under spring pressure it strips a round out of the magazine and into the chamber. The gun is then ready to fire again. Semi automatic because only one round is fired with each trigger pull, but the gun is made ready to fire again. Single Action because the trigger only drops the hammer. Examples are the 1911 & Browning High Power.

Pistol Double Action/Single Action also known as Traditional Double Action. These guns function as above, but have a de-cocker to safely drop the hammer and reset the trigger forward for a double action first shot. subsequent shots are fired in single action unless the decocker is used. This mechanism is generally considered safer than the single action for users who do little training, such as some police departments or soldiers as the first trigger pull is longer and heavier than subsequent shots. Examples are the Sig 226 & the Beretta 92FS.

Pistol Double Action only:
Like the revolver double action only, these are usually a variation of the traditional double action gun that lacks an internal sear notch and hammer spur. They decock automatically after each shot or when the slide is cycled to load the gun. Benefits are that the trigger pull tends to be slightly lighter than a traditional double action, and the trigger pull is consistent fron shot to shot where a traditional double action will have a heavy first pull and light subsequent pulls. An example is the Beretta 92D.

Pistol Striker fired:
These lack a hammer because they use an internal firing pin or striker to fire the gun. Common examples are the S&W M&P, Springfield XD and the Glock range. As these are internal, hammerless mechanisms they do not fall into any of the above categories, although they are sometimes categorised as double action or single action depending upon wether the striker is fully tensioned by working the slide or wether the trigger moves it further back before firing.
Generally these have a lighter trigger pull than a traditional double action or double action only gun, but a heavier pull than a traditional single action only gun.
Working the slide will load a round, and pretension the striker. Pulling the trigger will finish tensioingn and then release the striker, firing the gun. There are older versions of striker fired guns where the firing pin is fully cocked internally and pulling the trigger will release it. An example is the baby browning.