Post here if you can afford....

[FFMedic]

Maybe if you are not loaded with cash you could take some time to lobby your state for a castle doctrine and other such laws? Seems like most SD shootings are at home.

As far as me? I could get the cash, no biggie given the circumstances.

FFMedic

 

[inSight-NEO]

bear71- There just are no guarantees here. If the shooting is a "cut and dry" self-defense case, chances are no trial will take place as no prosecutor would waste his/her time with it. Sure, a civil suit may be next, but Im betting that it would not go far unless there were probable cause in doing so.

Where I live, the laws seem to favor a self defense shooting (particularly within the home) vs. making allowances on the criminals behalf.

Again, try this link (as recommended by the likes of Massad Ayoob and others) and consider what they offer. But, keep in mind, "insurance" only goes so far. Still, having SOME type of plan/recourse is better than having none at all, yes?

http://www.secondamendmentclub.org/

Do I have a plan? Somewhat/yes. Can I predict the outcome? Not a chance. Do the lives of my family mean more to me than my money or my own life? Without hesitation...YES.

 

[Old Fuff]

At present, I'd save my life and immediately think that my kids would be out on the street. They'd still have a Dad though.

I think that most kids would tell you they'd rather have Dad. Money isn't that impressive to them. Dad is.

Money is replaceable - one way or another, although it might take a long time. Lives, yours and others, cannot be replaced. Getting killed seldom does your family (let alone you) any favors.

 

[bear71]

"Still, having SOME type of plan/recourse is better than having no plan at all, yes?"

Yes! The Boy Scout motto has always been "be prepared."

I'm very curious about the topic because this weekend I experienced an event that could have gone terribly wrong but was succesfully diffused. I was on the outside of the fringe of the event but could have easily been drawn in with my own life in danger.

My mind is now circling on the aftermath if that event couldn't be diffused.

 

[Jamie C.]

So what's your plan, Jamie?

You've trained, you carry, you value your life. Now what?

I defend my life, then explain to whatever cop answers the call what happened. If it happens to be a home invasion, or even in the county I live in, the responding officer will probably be one I used to work with, or at least one who knows me... might possibly even be my own brother.

After that... who knows? Can't say I've spent much time thinking on it.

I do know the likelihood of it costing me everything I have is pretty slim, if it's honestly a self-defense situation. Especially given TN's laws on the subject.


J.C.

 

[Nate1778]

Let the state pay for the attorney. If it is clear cut it should not be an issue. Now a shot to the back, or something a bit more questionable (which is what were talking about) time to lawyer up. Either way I would pay, I would also let my local news outlets know about the trouble with defending your life.

 

[mikecu]

Florida

This topic tells me that Florida is on to something.
If you aren't charged with a crime in a defensive shoot, then you can't be sued for it either.

Castle laws are beneficial.

 

[mgkdrgn]

...$15,000 in attorney fees in a criminal defense and an additional $15,000 in a civil defense on your behalf in a completely justifiable defensive shooting.

Let's assume that there was no other way to save your life and you would have suredly been killed without the defense.

Would saving your life lead you to near financial ruin? I've heard people that defend themselves sometimes get fired from their jobs.

Are there advocacy groups that help defendants that were completely in the right?

So long as it's a "good shoot", living in South Carolina resolves #1.

Being self employed pretty much solves the job issue.

 

[bear71]

Looks like Florida has some intelligent people writing the laws. That is your good fortune, mike.

Castle laws should be nationwide.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Yep Texas is the same no Charge = civil immunity.

 

[doc2rn]

Been there done that! It was only $23000....:-( Blood sucking lawyers and courts no wonder judges live high on the hog! N E way I won and it was mostly from the civil suites brought by each member of the family pro bono dontcha know! He was a good brother, father, son just got his life turned around and he hit a rough patch.

 

[danprkr]

I defend my life, then explain to whatever cop answers the call what happened.

No, you defend your life, and then ask whatever cop answers the call for your attorney. Not because the cops are bad guys looking to bust you, but because ANYTHING you say can be used by the DA so respectfully refuse to answer anything except your name. It's real hard to get into trouble with your mouth closed.

As to the question of can you come up with 30k. I have learned from bitter experience that money comes and goes. Trust me, I've gone from happily married making a decent living to divorced, living on food stamps, my church, and friends due to health issues that I couldn't afford.

I'm still here, and coming out of that hole. Do what you have must in the moment to protect yourself and your family. The rest will wait, and be taken care of in due time. Especially if you have kids to take care of. Your first, greatest, and ONLY responsibility is to be around to take care of them.


.

 

[Ky Larry]

Mr. Sparks, are you suggesting some one might "Shoot, Shovel, and Shut Up?"
I was raised in Eastern Kentucky. I know some places in Wolfe, Powell, Lewis and Mennifee counties where a body wouldn't be found in several lifetimes.
There are no luggage racks on the meat wagon that will haul you the cemetary so what good is all the money in the world if you're dead?

 

[armoredman]

Arizona, Castle Defense, and this little gem...

13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct

No person in this state shall be subject to civil liability for engaging in conduct otherwise justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

If I am justified, neither my opponent nor his family, nor his estate may sue me.

 

[inSight-NEO]

I'm very curious about the topic because this weekend I experienced an event that could have gone terribly wrong but was succesfully diffused. I was on the outside of the fringe of the event but could have easily been drawn in with my own life in danger.

You have my attention...would you feel comfortable explaining this situation?

 

[Winston_Smith]

I dont think 15K would even come close to covering a murder trail, maybe 100K would be a good starting point. Expert witnesses, lab work, etc will drive the cost up even higher.

People spend more than 15K on divorces...

 

[jhco]

In Florida I believe the castle doctrine helps to prevent the criminal or their family from suing you after a SD shooting if you are found to be innocent, and it also prevents you from being prosecuted if you acted within the law. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[inSight-NEO]

In Florida I believe the castle doctrine helps to prevent the criminal or their family from suing you after a SD shooting if you are found to be innocent, and it also prevents you from being prosecuted if you acted within the law.

Im not familiar with Florida law relating to such matters, but this sounds similar to where I live.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I would not want to be any part of "the system" that gave me a raw deal after a justifiable self defense shooting. Might cause me to go "postal" and not care anymore.........and, at that point, I don't care if "they" discover I said that on the internet. I'm sick and tired of things not being right anymore..........SO, as long as people play nice with me, I'll play nice with them...........

 

[Jamie C.]

No, you defend your life, and then ask whatever cop answers the call for your attorney. Not because the cops are bad guys looking to bust you, but because ANYTHING you say can be used by the DA so respectfully refuse to answer anything except your name. It's real hard to get into trouble with your mouth closed.

Danprkr, I fully realize that for many people, what you're saying is probably true.

However, in my case, clamming up would likely be a sure-fire way of spending the night in jail.

As I've mentioned, I know what the law is, here in TN, and also most of the local L.E.O.s, since I used to be one of them.

So believe me when I tell you no one would be "looking to bust me".

Also, I know exactly what needs to come out of my mouth - and what doesn't - when the police arrive.


J.C.

 

[CWL]

My life is worth more than $30,000. So are that of my family.

All the money in the world can't buy you one more breath of air if you are willing to leave your life to the whims of a BG..

 

[Animal Mother]

I could afford it; but only after making some real sacrifices.

Would saving your life lead you to near financial ruin?

Yes

Are there advocacy groups that help defendants that were completely in the right?

Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network (http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/) is the closest thing I know of to an advocacy group, but they don't work for free.

 

[Badlander]

A guy In West Palm Beach Last year killed A gangbanger in What was later decided to be A legal shoot. He was in jail for at least 6 mo. During that time the gangbangers friends burned his house (twice) lost his job. And the county had his dogs put down. I don't know how much money it cost him but he is alive. I don't know the man but I bet he thinks it was worth it.

 

[danprkr]

However, in my case, clamming up would likely be a sure-fire way of spending the night in jail.

So? A night in jail awaiting your attorney, or a multi-thousand dollar multi-month trial ordeal that your attorney could have beat before the charges were filed? Not much of a choice to me. One night ain't gonna kill me.

So believe me when I tell you no one would be "looking to bust me".

Probably true in many more rural jurisdictions. Especially if you know the players. But, all it takes is one DA to decide that one answer you gave will give him a way to grind some political/personal/professional ax at your expense.

Here in Austin the City Council went to the trouble of passing a motion to condemn concealed carry in the state when it was being passed. Fortunately smarter heads prevailed. But, it is not inconceivable that some liberal DA would want to hang me for having the gall to defend myself from some scumbag.

So, if you're willing to bet your life on your connections, fine. Me, I'm waiting for an attorney, even if that means spending a bit of time in the tank.

BTW - I just looked up some old stats from my TX CHL Instructor course. In TX all shootings SHALL go to a grand jury, and the average cost for a no bill at the Grand Jury was 30k - 15 years ago. If you went to a trial it was closer to 100k. Which, as one guy said meant that if you used a double tap those rounds cost 50k each! And to think. There's another thread on this board where we're griping about 75 cents a round.

.

 

[Jamie C.]

Probably true in many more rural jurisdictions. Especially if you know the players. But, all it takes is one DA to decide that one answer you gave will give him a way to grind some political/personal/professional ax at your expense.

Hmm... Well, although I don't personally know the DA, one of the assistant DAs is one of my old training officers from the Sheriff's office... and another is an old family friend.

And I won't even bother listing the county commissioners I know, or the judges... or for how long I've known them.

I will tell you that all of those people are going to find it quite suspicious if I refuse to answer even basic questions, or immediately ask for my attorney. ( An attorney who also serves as the city's attorney. )

Anybody else starting to see where me refusing to talk might be a bad idea? Especially in a "clean shoot" situation?

Again, I know this isn't a typical or usual situation... but for me, given my history with these people... shutting up until an attorney gets there isn't likely to do anything but make a bad situation much worse.


J.C.