potential "situation" the other day - opinions wanted

[cdninusa]

I was riding my motorcycle the other day doing the speed limit on a back road and saw a car on a side street (right hand side) about 1/4 mile ahead of me. He was stopped at a stop sign apparently waiting to enter the street I was riding on. As I approached, while he had plenty of time to enter the roadway in front of me, he didn't move. As I got closer, and right about at the point where it was unsafe for him to do so, he made a right turn from the side street and entered my street in front of me in the direction I was moving. I had to hit the brakes (not particularly hard mind you) to avoid hitting him. He sped off in front of me and I chalked it up to a driver who wasn't paying attention - probably on the phone. I didn't accelerate to catch him or flip him off or do anything that would be considered aggressive. To be honest, it happens all the time and it wasn't really a big deal.

So...he sped off in front of me for about a mile, stopped at a stop sign, turned right and came to an intersection with a light. I went in the same direction but was far behind him still doing the speed limit. I didn't catch up to him at the stop sign, but I did pull up behind him at the red light.

At the light, he appeared to flip me the bird through his back window. Again, I didn't respond or do anything to escalate the situation, but I now figured something was up with him so I was paying more attention to him. There were 2 vehicles in front of him and I was directly behind him.

The light turned green. The 2 vehicles in front of him went through the intersection and he didn't move. I waited for a fair amount of time (the other vehicles were already though the intersection of a 4 lane road) and then, figuring he was looking for trouble, pulled out to his left and went through the intersection (still a green light). As soon as I passed his car, he jumped on the gas and accelerated beside and past me almost running me off the road. Once he was through the intersection, he pulled over to the shoulder.

I pulled up beside him and he opened his window. The reason I did not just continue riding is because I thought he may chase me in his car and try to run me off the road or hit me.

I said to him "Dude, what is your problem? You almost killed me back there!".

At this point, he opened his door, started approaching me and wanted to fight. He said something like "get off your bike and we'll see how tough you are"...or something like that.

As he approached me, I pulled about 10 feet ahead so a.) he wouldn't knock me off my bike and b.) to separate him from his car, should he continue towards me...which he did.

I looked back, got his plate number and rode off. He ran back to his car, got in it and started pursuing me. I made a right turn towards my house, which is where I was going anyways, and he didn't follow me.

So my questions are:

1. I had my weapon with me in my jacket pocket. Would you have drawn your weapon in the situation as described when he first approached?

2. If he had chased me to the end of my street (dead end street) would you have drawn at that time?

I did not draw my weapon, mostly because I believed I had a way out (which it turns out I did) and because there were no witnesses and he could have said I was the aggressor or party to it. I was running scenarios as I rode off and decided if he tried to run me off the road or followed me down the dead end street, I believed I would be justified in drawing (and shooting, if he continued to move towards me in a threatening manner) at that point.

Thoughts?

P.S. I still don't understand why he did what he did as I did not provoke this at all. I figure he was out looking for trouble and I was the "lucky" one that met up with him first.

 

[Weedy]

I've had a couple situations like that, unexplainable road rage. I don't have the experience to tell you if or when you should have drawn (although I myself would have drawn if he approached me in an aggressive manner on a dead end street), but in my opinion, you did exactly the right thing.

 

[CoRoMo]

These usually are posted in S&T. If you can't find it here later, look there because a Mod will likely move it.

1. No. If I could just ride off, I'd do that.
2. Probably not. If you had enough room to avoid him, like say getting onto or into your property, then just avoid, disengage, escape and evade. Now, if he was going to use his car as a weapon and I thought I was about to be run over, or if he comes onto my property, that's very different.

p.s. (answer to your thought)
It's because he's an idiot; that's why.

 

[cambeul41]

All's well that ends well. Avoid when possible.

That said, a Quaker motorcyclist once told me that he carried a pocket full of rocks to toss over his shoulder in such cases. His wife was horrified.

 

[Werewolf]

1. No

2. If I was off the bike and he was still comin at me in his car and there was no way out - then YES.

 

[mongo4567]

I can only add that I would have ignored him and not pulled over when he did. If he continued to follow, I would have stopped at a busy convenience store or something (to get a soda) to get witnesses and cameras. I would never go to my house with someone following.

 

[MM60]

In 2005 I was living in a rental apartment in a wooded area of a very small country town. One day I was riding home from work on my HD Sportster down a long rural road when I noticed that two guys in a pick-up truck were tailgating me. I had (and still have) no idea who they were. I sped up a little bit, and they did too. In my mirror, they both looked like they were laughing it up about whatever they were doing or planning to do. I was nearing my house, but instead of turning down my 1/2-mile-long "driveway" (which just looked like a road into the woods) and leading them home, I kept riding and led them back out away from town. They proceeded to follow me as I made several turns and rode (very fast) deeper into the woods. Fortunately, I came upon a road crew from the power company that was cutting branches away from the wires, and they had most of the street blocked off. I zipped through on my bike, but the truck was stalled there for a moment. I raced up to the next intersection, turned right, and stopped about 50 yards from the intersection in a gravel pull-off area. I had had my 9mm Springfield 1911 in a shoulder holster inside my backpack all along. I had it in my backpack because I wasn't supposed to have it at work, and I could not have carried it any other way until I left work. I could have shouldered it shortly after leaving the premises, but that might have drawn some unwanted attention from other motorists. The guys in the truck reached the intersection and turned towards me just in time to see me slinging the holstered pistol over my shoulder. I turned back and headed straight towards them and saw some startled expressions on their faces as I passed them by. They did not turn around to continue their pursuit, and I made it home without any further problems. I don't know what their deal was, but hopefully I scared them into thinking twice before harassing anyone on the road again.

 

[Cosmoline]

I wouldn't have stopped at all. You would have been shot if he'd been armed and trying to kill you. Just evade him. For example if he's in front of you turn a different direction, then turn again then again etc.

I can only add that I would have ignored him and not pulled over when he did. If he continued to follow, I would have stopped at a busy convenience store or something (to get a soda) to get witnesses and cameras. I would never go to my house with someone following.

Agreed. Don't underestimate insane idiots. And don't put yourself in a situation where you're either going to get killed by an armed crazy man or have to shoot an unarmed crazy man.

 

[wishin]

There's no question that you did the right thing. I have to admit that I'm a hothead and don't always do the right thing. I've encountered a lot of road rage driving in the Atlanta metro area. On one occasion, after being purposely cut-off on 285, I chased a guy in my truck for a couple of miles. A sheriff's deputy pulled me over and said I was doing 85 (in a 55mph speed zone). When I honestly told him why I was driving so fast, he asked me "what would you have done if and when you caught up with him". I really didn't have an answer and felt as stupid as I must have seemed to him. I carry a loaded 9mm and still don't know what I would have done. I do know that if I can keep that little guy on my shoulder quiet, it's not something I'll do again.

 

[Dan M.]

cdninusa, I bet he thought you were somebody with whom he had a previous encounter, maybe even that same day, and you were getting the residual heat.

 

[Dan M.]

Wishin, if you're going to carry, there ought not to be an "if" when it comes to keeping the little guy on your shoulder quiet. Just sayin'.

 

[cdninusa]

I wouldn't have stopped at all. You would have been shot if he'd been armed and trying to kill you. Just evade him. For example if he's in front of you turn a different direction, then turn again then again etc.



Agreed. Don't underestimate insane idiots. And don't put yourself in a situation where you're either going to get killed by an armed crazy man or have to shoot an unarmed crazy man.

I thought about not stopping as well, but he had already pulled over and that would have put him behind me and able to pull out and run me off the road from behind. It was in a residential area with no public places for a couple of miles. At that moment, I assumed he pulled over to get behind me.

 

[pbearperry]

Mongo4567 is #1 As soon as you pulled a firearm the guy would gave called the cops and you would be wearing Peerless jewelry on your wrists.

 

[Darkninja]

I believe you made the best choice you could. I would have drawn if I was on a dead end road. I would have tried to do a little more evasion though. Glad to hear you're ok.

 

[mljdeckard]

1. No, for the same reasons you said. You were thinking about what you could do to avoid the confrontation and you did it correctly. No problem there. The younger version of Deckard might not have been so cool.

2. I definitely would have been ready to. The fact that he didn't follow you says his brain probably overtook the thinking process from his genitalia and he realized that he had no idea what he would do when he got you there, so he drove away. Whether or not I would have pulled depends a little bit on your situation at the door. Using the same thought process as driving away, could you reasonably get into your door before he could do you harm? Is your door secure enough that if you got in, you could be safe if he kept following you? What you are really asking is, "If he followed me home, would I be justified to shoot him?", because you don't draw unless you are committed to shoot. Ask yourself; "If he had followed me home, would I shoot him?", and that will probably tell you how close to violence you were.

I think that for MOST people in MOST circumstances, probably not. There are still a few steps between "He followed me home" and "I was was really in fear for my life". If he pulled something like, accelerating to try to plow you and your bike into the driveway, blocking your driveway, or following you to the door, THEN you are deciding whether or not to pull.

 

[wishin]

Wishin, if you're going to carry, there ought not to be an "if" when it comes to keeping the little guy on your shoulder quiet. Just sayin'.

I hear you Dan, but after 69 years I can say that I never shot anybody that didn't need killing!

 

[hank327]

I had a similar incident happen to me while I was on my motorcycle over 20 years ago. As I caught up to a pickup truck in front of me, I noticed the driver watching me in his rearview mirror. As I neared him, he suddenly slammed on his brakes for no reason and I had to get on my brakes very hard to keep from running into him. He then took off down the road going very slow and almost constantly watching me in his mirror. I knew this guy was a nut as I'd never seen him before and I had just been riding along doing the speed limit. So down the road we went, maybe doing 30 mph when I thought I'd try something. From perhaps 100 yards behind the truck I started accelerating and pulled into the opposite lane as if to pass the pickup. But before I got even with the truck, I got on my brakes hard and it was a good thing I did as the truck swerved violently into the opposite lane where I would have been had I really tried to pass him. He would have knocked my clear off the road and out into the pasture the way he swerved at me!

So having established that this guy was a certifiable nut, I did a quick U-turn and sped off at a high rate of speed to get away from the homicidal lunatic in front of me. Since then that has been my immediate reaction drill for such situations. In your case, I would not have pulled up directly behind him at the light as he could have backed up over you had he wanted. I would have turned around and got the heck out of Dodge. As for a car or truck catching me on my bike from behind, that just ain't gonna happen. At least not with 98 % of the vehicles on the road today.

So don't confront cagers while on your bike. Escape, outrun and evade should be your immediate reaction drill.

 

[mljdeckard]

If I observed someone deliberately trying to hit or block a motorcycle, I would get the plate and call the police.

 

[cdninusa]

thanks for all the comments. Much appreciated.

One thing I didn't mention because I didn't really think it was relevant at the time is that the motorcycle I was riding at the time was a custom, wide tire show bike. The significance being that it doesn't really accelerate or corner like a regular motorcycle. If I was in my truck or on my sport bike it wouldn't be an issue at all, but I had no ability to outrun or outmaneuver the BMW on this bike, which is why I didn't want the driver to get behind me. If I let him get behind me, he would have had the perfect opportunity to run me down or run me off the road with his car and I would have had no defense. After the incident when he was stopped, I was honestly surprised that he didn't continue to follow me when I turned.

It is amazing how time seems to slow down (or your brain goes into overdrive) in these types of situations, and you actually have the ability to run so many scenarios.

 

[cdninusa]

oh, I forgot to mention...the first thing I did when I walked in my door was call 911. The cop said that there wasn't much that they could do because everything I described was "traffic infractions". That blew me away.

 

[mljdeckard]

You would have ruined his afternoon by making him leave the office.

 

[Mainsail]

At this point, he opened his door, started approaching me and wanted to fight. He said something like "get off your bike and we'll see how tough you are"...or something like that.

Right there, that's where you should have been on the phone to the cops.

 

[Oyeboten]

Any vehicle who's driver or passenger(s) display any hint of ill will or baiting or road-games...best to get or remain behind them, and, soon as possible, turn off and find a different route, and avoid all further possibility of contact.


Even a whiff of suspicion that something's up, should be enough to decide to sveltly get far away from them, and risk no further interaction.

 

[cdninusa]

Right there, that's where you should have been on the phone to the cops.

not really an option. If I was in an enclosed vehicle, it would be different.
He was 6 feet away coming towards me.
I was on my motorcycle and had zero maneuverability.
Phone was in front pants pocket
Gun was in breast jacket pocket.
He would have been on me by the time I got my phone out' let alone dialed the number and got a connection.

 

[Snakum]

I've been riding both as an independant and in a club since I was 19 years old, and I've seen this a time or twelve. You'll have this kind of nonsense sooner or later if you ride long enough. If he wanted to fight, I'd have obliged him. Win or lose, a little dust up every now and then is good for the soul.

But that's just me.