gamestalker I suppose I should give 4451 & 4166 a try some day. But it's hard for me to justify after so many years of great results with the older well established propellants. I guess it's kind of an old dog new tricks thing for me.
GS
4166 has the speed, density, pressure, velocity of IMR4895 in Quickload, but has the Copper and Temp coating.
4451 has the speed, density, pressure, velocity of H4350 in Quickload, but has the Copper and temp coating [H4350 has the temp coating too]
The two 8# jugs cost me $457.66 delivered in Sept 2015 from Selway.
It looks like prices are about the same and still available there and a couple other places.
Even with moly and the Copper coating on the 4166 powder, the 125 gr 300WM at 3500 fps was Copper fouling in a new Krieger barrel. That was holding that rifle back to 500 yards. I got a buck in the back, running away at 250 yards.
The 120 gr moly in 6.5-06 was slow to foul with 4166 powder at 3200 fps in a new Shilen select match barrel. That barrel was ready to kill out to 600, and I made a hail Mary kill at 629 yards on a small doe.
David Tubb or Bart Bobbitt would have shot those animals between the eyes, but I am doing the best I can with what I am.