Powder puff vs full power 45/70 POI

[someguy2800]

Was just curious if anyone could lend me some experience. I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 which I normally just shoot cast bullets over trailboss out of at 1200 fps or so. I was thinking about loading some full power loads for it but wondering if I’ll have enough sight adjustment with my current front sight height. What kind of POI shift do you see going from a 1200 fps load to a 1900-2000 fps load?

 

[dh1633pm]

I have an 1895G. Hornady Levolution hits about eight inches higher at 100 yards than my lower power lead loads. I find that the rifle shoots higher or lower based solely on the power of the round. No windage adjustment needed. Mine was a 2003 Model.

 

[someguy2800]

I have an 1895G. Hornady Levolution hits about eight inches higher at 100 yards than my lower power lead loads. I find that the rifle shoots higher or lower based solely on the power of the round. No windage adjustment needed. Mine was a 2003 Model.

What power level is you lower power load?

 

[dh1633pm]

I would say 1200 fps or just a bit less.

 

[Riomouse911]

I haven’t shot my 1895G (18.5”) or 1895CB (26”) much past 100 yards or so and written the comparison down between Trapdoor and Marlin loads, so I can’t give personal observations beyond that. However this chart may help you figure out how much bullets drop side by side:



Stay safe.

 

[Charlie98]

Just FYI... if you are interested...

I have Williams peep sights mounted on most of my levers, including when I had my Marlin 1895. There are index marks on the elevation adjustment slider so you can switch back and forth between loads, and simply adjust the sight according to the dope you've worked up... if you plan on making a habit of it. A few rounds of full-house .45-70 might make you change your mind, however...

 

[someguy2800]

Just FYI... if you are interested...

I have Williams peep sights mounted on most of my levers, including when I had my Marlin 1895. There are index marks on the elevation adjustment slider so you can switch back and forth between loads, and simply adjust the sight according to the dope you've worked up... if you plan on making a habit of it. A few rounds of full-house .45-70 might make you change your mind, however...

I have a williams WGRS on it. I am something of a recoil enthusiast so its probably not going to offend me.

 

[Charlie98]

I have a williams WGRS on it. I am something of a recoil enthusiast so its probably not going to offend me.

The WGRS may not offer enough elevation range, depending on your distances and load.

I used to be a recoil guy... quite honestly, that Marlin 1895 literally beat it out of me. True story.

 

[someguy2800]

The WGRS may not offer enough elevation range, depending on your distances and load.

If its 8" at 100 as suggested above I will just barely have enough at the lowest notch. The model I have is an 18" barrel so the shorter sight radius actually gives a little more total elevation adjustment than the longer barrel models.

 

[Show Me]

You must experience shooting off a bench with a 45-70. Trapdoor loads are fine. 300 gr8 cast at 1300 or hollow point xtp at 1900 but load up a 400gr marlin load at 2100 2200 will send you back to the 300 gr. Standing up to shoot let's the gun recoil up more and helps

 

[someguy2800]

You must experience shooting off a bench with a 45-70. Trapdoor loads are fine. 300 gr8 cast at 1300 or hollow point xtp at 1900 but load up a 400gr marlin load at 2100 2200 will send you back to the 300 gr. Standing up to shoot let's the gun recoil up more and helps

A 400 grain load at 2200 fps in a Marlin just might send you back to the gun store to replace your rifle because even the Ruger #1 loads in my manuals top out at a little over 2000.

 

[Show Me]

A 400 grain load at 2200 fps in a Marlin just might send you back to the gun store to replace your rifle because even the Ruger #1 loads in my manuals top out at a little over 2000.

Yes, mixed it up. Still it hurts. Never used that lyman mold again. I think what's loaded is benchmark at 2100 for 300 xtp's

 

[someguy2800]

Yes, mixed it up

I was thinking something like a 300 jacketed at 2000 or 350 grain jacketed at 1900 or so but come to think of it I might come a little short in my 18" barrel.

 

[someguy2800]

I have a 444 marlin (not in a marlin, its a stronger single shot action) that I load a 320 grain at 2200 and it is indeed pretty abusive. I am a bit of a glutten for punishment, I shoot 12 gauge slugs from an ithaca featherweight with a grin on my face and I'm building a 505 gibbs.

 

[Show Me]

I was thinking something like a 300 jacketed at 2000 or 350 grain jacketed at 1900 or so but come to think of it I might come a little short in my 18" barrel.

Mine is the standard 22 inch. Had to get up and look. Benchmark for 2022 average using 300 xtp. 5744 for 1500 300gr cast. 5744 for 1500 400 gr lyman mold for the marlin. 400 gr the scope will send my hat to the floor. Also the 400gr was keyholing at 50 yards. I should ask if anyone knows why.

 

[Show Me]

Any way I've used factory sights and an ace in the hole and don't remember not having enough adjustment. Your missing out if you don't try different loads. From books not internet I should say.

 

[Show Me]

I have a 444 marlin (not in a marlin, its a stronger single shot action) that I load a 320 grain at 2200 and it is indeed pretty abusive. I am a bit of a glutten for punishment, I shoot 12 gauge slugs from an ithaca featherweight with a grin on my face and I'm building a 505 gibbs.

New projects are the spice of life

 

[jmorris]

Was just curious if anyone could lend me some experience. I have a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 which I normally just shoot cast bullets over trailboss out of at 1200 fps or so. I was thinking about loading some full power loads for it but wondering if I’ll have enough sight adjustment with my current front sight height. What kind of POI shift do you see going from a 1200 fps load to a 1900-2000 fps load?

It’s only going to get flatter shooting and more abusive to your shoulder. You are not going to turn it into more of a “throwing a bread loaf” caliber, by increasing the velocity.

 

[someguy2800]

It’s only going to get flatter shooting and more abusive to your shoulder. You are not going to turn it into more of a “throwing a bread loaf” caliber, by increasing the velocity.

I know what it is and what it isn’t.

 

[jmorris]

At what distance are you curious about POA/POI, zeros/shift?

That might enable us to give you some usable data, to answer the question in the OP.

All I was saying above is that you need not worry about having enough adjustment, as stated in the OP, for the same load going from 1200- 1900/2000 fps.

As the faster load(s) will have less trajectory (need for sight compensation) than the slower 1200 fps load.

In other words, if you have enough sight adjustment for your 1200 fps load, any load that is an improvement upon that, trajectory wise, will also be within your sight adjustment range.

 

[GooseGestapo]

[QUOTE="Show Me, post: Also the 400gr was keyholing at 50 yards. I should ask if anyone knows why.[/QUOTE]

In all likelihood, you have a Microgroove barrel, and undersized bullets.
My 2002 manufacture 1895GG has Microgroove rifling. I use either a Lee mold with aluminum tape applied to inside halves of mold or a RCBS that throws to advertised.460”+ . I size to .460”.
I also have an older Lee .459” hollow base bullet that doesn’t matter what it’s sized to.

My 2016 “Remlin” M1895 has Ballard rifling and a VERY good barrel.
Three rounds of 400gr Lee hollow point at ~1,500fps (20.0gr #2400).
@0.460” sizer, SPG lube. Range scrap plus wheel weights.
Older Lyman molds can be “enlarged” by one to two layers of aluminum tape applied to inside of mold.
Size bullets to .460-.461”.

PS: If you need more range on adjustments, a shorter or taller front sight can be used.

 

[someguy2800]

At what distance are you curious about POA/POI, zeros/shift?

That might enable us to give you some usable data, to answer the question in the OP.

All I was saying above is that you need not worry about having enough adjustment, as stated in the OP, for the same load going from 1200- 1900/2000 fps.

As the faster load(s) will have less trajectory (need for sight compensation) than the slower 1200 fps load.

In other words, if you have enough sight adjustment for your 1200 fps load, any load that is an improvement upon that, trajectory wise, will also be within your sight adjustment range.

Just 100 yard zero. My actual concern is being able to lower the elevation enough enough since the heavier load will shoot higher at that range. I have the tallest front sight marbles makes to get my wgrs on the right plane, so once the wgrs is bottomed out I don't have any more adjustability without getting creative or welding up a taller front sight. If its 8 moa or thereabouts as suggested in post 2 I should have enough adjustment left in the rear sight to get there.

 

[Show Me]

[QUOTE="Show Me, post: Also the 400gr was keyholing at 50 yards. I should ask if anyone knows why.

In all likelihood, you have a Microgroove barrel, and undersized bullets.
My 2002 manufacture 1895GG has Microgroove rifling. I use either a Lee mold with aluminum tape applied to inside halves of mold or a RCBS that throws to advertised.460”+ . I size to .460”.
I also have an older Lee .459” hollow base bullet that doesn’t matter what it’s sized to.

My 2016 “Remlin” M1895 has Ballard rifling and a VERY good barrel.
Three rounds of 400gr Lee hollow point at ~1,500fps (20.0gr #2400).
@0.460” sizer, SPG lube. Range scrap plus wheel weights.
Older Lyman molds can be “enlarged” by one to two layers of aluminum tape applied to inside of mold.
Size bullets to .460-.461”.

PS: If you need more range on adjustments, a shorter or taller front sight can be used.[/QUOTE]
2017 22 inch. Tried that suggested lyman with suggested powder and suggested amount suggested lead mix un sized tumble lubed just like everything else I cast. .460 .461 with my caliper right here. I have some alum tape to try . I have a bore scope and crony to keep an eye on things. Made perfect side profile in the cardboard. My brother did say even a sideways 400 gr would hurt. So in life if you follow directions and wish it would work it might not. Use the directions for toilet paper and carry on

 

[jmorris]

Ok, I loaded up two loads with Hornady 300 grain JHP’s. One averaged 1078 fps the other 1923 fps. The rifle is zeroed for my 405 gn load, so the 1923 shot above POA and the 1078 below POA at 100 yds, with about 13.5” between the two. Confirming the reason I dislike trailboss and that this rifle likes hot 3031 loads.





If you are interested this is how they stack up at 50 yards, all else the same.

 

[someguy2800]

Ok, I loaded up two loads with Hornady 300 grain JHP’s. One averaged 1078 fps the other 1923 fps. The rifle is zeroed for my 405 gn load, so the 1923 shot above POA and the 1078 below POA at 100 yds, with about 13.5” between the two. Confirming the reason I dislike trailboss and that this rifle likes hot 3031 loads.

View attachment 1054082

View attachment 1054085

If you are interested this is how they stack up at 50 yards, all else the same.

View attachment 1054088

Thank you! In that case I might not have enough rear sight depression so I might have to load somewhere in the middle. I was hoping to be able to have 2 loads for the rifle and be able to just have a preset sight setting for both but if its that far off I don't know if I have enough adjustment without fabricating a taller front sight.

My typical cast load is a 350gr at 1200 so there might not be as much disparity if my hot load is a 300 at 1900.