Powerful full length bull pups?

[Oic0]

A bull pup design is great in that it lets you have a longer barrel and retain some velocity in a smaller package. Are there any commercially available rifles that make use of that design to make an already full length rifle more powerful? Like a 30-06 bullpup? There is a nice list on wiki of "sniper" rifles, but what about stuff we can buy? (and afford without a second mortage?).
I see info on the DSR-1 but is it commercially available?

 

[dovedescending]

How would one make a 30-06 more powerful? Are you meaning, uses a bullpup design to add extra length to the barrel?

 

[Oic0]

Yes, I'm not sure what optimal length is for a 30-06 or any of the other modern cartridges but I would imagine the extra inches would help. Maybe not so much in the 30-06 but .338, maybe 300RUM. I don't know the math but its got to help some and it seems like it would be a good idea *shrug*. Maybe its not worth the expense?

 

[Maverick223]

Here ya go:


Desert Tactical SRS - This one is chambered in .300WM, but other chamberings are available (such as .243Win., .308Win., and .338LM); all barrels are Krieger. Bbl conversion is a quick and simple process. It wasn't cheap, but didn't have to mortgage the house...just the truck.

Others that might fill the roll are the aforementioned DSR-1 (very similar to the SRS), the forthcoming Kel-Tec RFB (.308Win. with others to follow), and the Barrett M-95 and M-99 (but these are probably a bit more than you want/are looking for WRT expenditure and power). The RFB is to be released with a 32" bbl for additional velocity from a relatively light cartridge (should exceed .30-06, and approach a short bbl .300WM), but the weight is creeping up there IIRC. Additionally there are several bullpup conversion kits, but my experience with any conversion has been poor. They tend to exhibit poor fit/finish, terrible ergonomics, horrible controls (if any), and an atrocious trigger (far worse than the average bullpup).

 

[dom1104]

A bullpup, bolt action.

Interesting.

For that fast followup... no for the quick and handy deplo... for....

THE COOL FACTOR!

very neat and unique gun.

 

[Maverick223]

A bullpup, bolt action. [...] Interesting.

...and dang fun to shoot. It is a LRPR so firing from off-hand is atypical (and difficult with a 15lb system as pictured, even with a bullpup) so the location of the bolt is a non-issue (even for a lefty, which I am not). In fact I find the bolt to be in a better location for prone and benchrest shooting. In all I like it almost as good as the M17S (the finest combat rifle never deployed).

 

[Oic0]

Thats exactly the kind of gun I was thinking of. Was wondering why no one made something like that, guess they do and I just didn't know about it... though at 6,000 its far beyond what I could ever convince the wife I need lol. "Why yes honey, I'm going to blow the whole tax refund on a gun " . I would be banned to the couch just for thinking about it.

It must be because they are targeting organizations with it and anything bought with federal $$$ is always marked way up?

 

[Maverick223]

Not $6k (unless you are including more than one bbl), mine was about $4250.00USD +optics...+bipod...okay maybe it was $6k...or 7.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Maverick, will they do one of those in say, 6.5-284? How many bbl lengths are offered? What is your bbl length? (I mean on your rifle, that is). That rifle is so sweet it's making me drool.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Nevermind, found it:

http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/firearms

I'd want the "Covert" chassis (with the shorter rail forearm), but with the 26" .338 lapua - yes, indeed....

 

[CWL]

The biggest problem with bullpups is they have crappy triggers. To operate, you need a long trigger link bar to release the bolt to fire the rifle, this loses the fine crisp feel that you need for a precision rifle. Most bullpups including military issues have this problem.

This can be improved, but you are moving into the $$$ range again.

 

[Maverick223]

Maverick, will they do one of those in say, 6.5-284?

Not from Desert Tactical, but there is a different company that makes conversions for them. 6.5-.284 isn't specifically listed, but they do say "most chamberings".

How many bbl lengths are offered?

26in. is the only standard length that I am aware of, but there is a new scout rifle that uses shorter barrels (16in. IIRC). Mine is a 26in. heavy taper (DTA contour) Krieger, came standard...and works (gotta love a 0.5MOA from a cold bore) Additionally they have a "hunting" rifle (that looks goofy as all get out, but would probably be practical dependent upon weight), and a new .50BMG version.

That rifle is so sweet it's making me drool.

Thanks...here is a rag.

 

[Maverick223]

The biggest problem with bullpups is they have crappy triggers. To operate, you need a long trigger link bar to release the bolt to fire the rifle, this loses the fine crisp feel that you need for a precision rifle. Most bullpups including military issues have this problem.

That is true with most bullpups. The exceptions (that I know of) are the DSR-1, the SRS, and the RFB. All use a striker with a short linkage similar to a standard bolt action rifle. Lock time is also very good. Additionally some bullpups, such as my trusty M17 use a bar, but exhibit a decent trigger (similar to a standard AR-15). It is nothing special (the trigger I mean), but good enough for that type of rifle. The conversions (particularly the AK type), give bullpups a bad name WRT trigger, design, and overall build quality. Which leads me to believe that ALL bullpups should be designed from the ground up.

 

[Al LaVodka]

But its not a .22 LR?
Al

 

[george30]

Look into a kel tec RFB in 308. The only version they have out at the moment is the carbine version with an 18 inch barrel but they are going to make a target version with alot longer barrel(maybe up to 32" not really sure). The carbine version is selling for 1,800 dollars.

 

[One-Time]

The 'most powerful' bullpup I can think of thats not a sniper/tactical type bolt is the KelTec RFB or the M14 based bullpup once made

Both in .308 and very short and handy

 

[Oic0]

Is there a law or reason not to use electronic trigger / sears like paintball guns? so you get a trigger pull like a mouse click? I can see how on semis it would allow easier conversion in to full auto, but why not on a bolt gun?

 

[HB]

Is there a law or reason not to use electronic trigger / sears like paintball guns? so you get a trigger pull like a mouse click? I can see how on semis it would allow easier conversion in to full auto, but why not on a bolt gun?

There isnt as far as i know. There are several air and free pistols (international shooting) that are equipped with them.
Makes sense to me.

HB

 

[TonyRumore]

Maybe it's just me, but why in the hell would put a FOUR rail handguard on a gun so you can stick ONE bipod on it. Then you can't carry it for s**t.

How 'bout a regular hand guard, and ONE rail for the bipod. Now that is one novel idea!

Tony

 

[Maverick223]

Is there a law or reason not to use electronic trigger / sears like paintball guns?

Yep, the Remington E-tronix (or something like that), uses electronic primers ignited by an electrical charge. Never shot one, but the trigger is supposed to be outstanding (as one could imagine). The only problems are that it uses batteries and has a circuit board making it marginally less reliable. IMO it was a great idea that unfortunately never really took off.

Maybe it's just me, but why in the hell would put a FOUR rail handguard on a gun so you can stick ONE bipod on it. Then you can't carry it for s**t. [...] How 'bout a regular hand guard, and ONE rail for the bipod. Now that is one novel idea!

I agree, but it came equipped that way, and it is proprietary per my understanding. I would much prefer a two rail configuration (top and bottom), but I'm not interested in chopping off the side rails and having to recoat just for that. Besides it isn't a carry rifle anyways.

 

[Oic0]

In paintball guns its all housed in the grip and its the sear that is electronically moved. For some of the older guns you can get bolt on electronic grip + trigger setups. I agree the battery does remove some of the reliability but if its only moving the sear it wouldn't be hard to have a mechanical back that engages past the normal fire point. Its pretty cheap in paintball guns, around $70 for the bolt on kits. If it ever does make it to "Tactical" weapons though I bet it will only be on some $3000 gun or sold as $700 lower kits. I can already see it now, the hot new thing being electronic lowers and mounting a solar cell on one of the bazillion rails to keep the battery charged.
If I had a gunsmith license I would try to retrofit a paintball one inside a real gun.

 

[rangerruck]

Kel tec full size 308, cases drop straight out the front...

 

[Wes Janson]

Is there a law or reason not to use electronic trigger / sears like paintball guns? so you get a trigger pull like a mouse click? I can see how on semis it would allow easier conversion in to full auto, but why not on a bolt gun?

ATF tends not to think highly of electronic triggers. Mechnical linkages are one thing, but from what I recall they've never approved anything along the lines of a paintball trigger pack with a solenoid.

 

[Maverick223]

ATF tends not to think highly of electronic triggers. Mechnical linkages are one thing, but from what I recall they've never approved anything along the lines of a paintball trigger pack with a solenoid.

Apparently the okay'd it some point...Remington EtronX.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Mav, that's very interesting about freedom gunworks and their conversions of the desert tactical, espec. in light of the 7 WSM chambering which is a very good one, AFAIAC, for long range work.

Question: Couldn't I just buy the "chassis" of the Desert Tactical without the barrel, then have the freedom GW folks fix their barrel on? No need to buy stuff just to throw it away or sell it, is there?

Next question: Could one take the 'covert' chassis (with the shorter rails), and have Freedom GW put a 7 WSM bbl on it, I wonder? The covert is made for .308 Win, so as for mag length and action length, it should work, but the bolt would need to be swapped out (for the .300 Win Mag sized one).