Practical vs target shooting--common shooter errors

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1911 guy, I think the episode of putting revolver brass in the pocket was what got a CHP Officer killed in a shoot out a long, long time ago. Can't remember exactly when, but it *has* been a long time since CHP carried revolvers. :D

Good post. Our local IDPA club actually has developmental classes that teach proper gun handling procedures for beginners. They recommend that you take one of these classes before actually competing, and it makes sense. If you never get trained properly, no one can blame you for not knowing how to do something. I've seen some pretty scary things on the range, too.
 
Good post! Lots of things I would never have thought of while doing typical range target practice. This just leads me to believe that everyone should be required to take a safety course before they are allowed to get on a range!
 
It will be interesting to see how they progress. Is anyone providing them with tips or instruction?
I think the course was a real eye-opener for everyone involved. We had lots of requests to hold another similar match in the future.

I agree with several posters that this wasn't really a very practical match, but the idea was to start slowly and work up. However, after seeing the results, I have come to the same conclusion that you have. Before we have another match, we need to have some gun-handling seminars like sacp81170a mentioned in his post.

Zak & eerw made an interesting point on the slide manipulation issue. After thinking about it, I think that's not a bad idea at all. Again, I think it needs to be something that they are planning to do or have practiced. The main problem in this situation was that most shooters realized that they had ejected a live round and that bothered them--it was almost as if they wanted to stop and retrieve the round.

Same kind of thing with the magazine changes. The biggest problem seemed to be the uncertainty.

Based on some of the responses, I guess that my original post appears to be bordering on derogatory with respect to my comments about the shooters in the match. I really didn't mean for that to be the case. I think the shooters did quite well given the fact that they had no experience in this sort of shooting before the match.

Jeff "got" my intent, I wasn't ragging on the guys in the match--I was hoping that reading my post would help prevent others from making the same mistakes I saw in the match. And perhaps to encourage people to get involved in some of the more "practical/defensive" type competitions out there. They're not perfect by a long shot, but I think the techniques and situations you will encounter will teach any shooter valuable lessons.
 
And the only practical way to do that in training is to use lower power airsoft guns. Paintball guns and simunitions are way too powerful to use at typical gunfight distances (0-10 feet), without some serious protective gear.

I would have to disagree that Simunitions are too powerful. I have been shot with Simunitions at contact distance and my only protective gear was a t-shirt and sweater. it didn't feel great; but it does provide you with good incentive not to repeat the same mistake in future scenarios. The other advantages of Simunitions are that they are effective over longer ranges, shot goes to point of aim, less confusion about whether or not someone was hit, and finally stoppages are handled in the same manner as the actual weapon.
 
After two years of slow fire at paper in ranges only, I went to my very first PPC match and did the "defense" course -- 60 rounds total at 15m max.
I went into it with the attitude that it was for familiarization and my goal was to be safe while gaining experience.
I specifically told myself to NOT get caught up in time pressures and let adrenaline take over.

I didn't alarm anybody.
I didn't get yelled at.
The only time I didn't get all rounds off was when a magazine jammed on me and I couldn't clear it on time.
Muzzle was pointed downrange every second gun was out of holster.
Safety was always on when gun was IN holster.
Scores weren't too bad either.
I did good?

Think about this:
1) I have no idea when my trigger finger entered the guard during the draw process.
2) I don 't know where my left hand was during the draw process.
3) I couldn't tell you where my trigger finger was when I was reloading.
4) I had to be reminded to pick up my empty magazines before leaving the scene.
5) For the first time in my life, a .45 didn't kick or make noise when I used it.

Lessons Learned:
1) The adrenaline DID get to me, even though I didn't know it at the time.
2) Anybody who even THINKS about carrying a hand-gun, whether for SD or when hunting, had better take some of these competitive courses and learn what they will be doing if/when they find themselves having to draw it.

Thanks for the comments that started this thread.
Fud
 
Good thread.

For the first time in my life, a .45 didn't kick or make noise when I used it.

It is amazing how the adrenaline changes the whole experience.

I really love when I shoot a stage "in the zone" :D

Just standing in a stall shooting bullseye targets was good for the fundamentals of sight picture, trigger control etc... but left me unprepared for shooting scenarios and on the move.
 
I agree completely with JohnKSa, having seen the same things at a "psuedo" action match where competitors shot from a static position beginning from the low ready. You could tell that most of them only shot once or twice a year, if that often. The biggest problem seemed to be a lack of familiarity with their pistol that was compounded exponentially by the match factors...clock, observers, varying types of targets. Most of these folks seemed minimally capable of participating in their own defense with a firearm, and then only in the simplest of scenarios. They missed...a lot! I thought at the time that a reload or a malfunction would probably spell their demise if the fight wasn't already over. I wasn't judging them, I was just surprised at how poor their gun handling skills were.

Nothing like the skill level and gun handling abilities that I see among IPSC shooters, even at the lower classifications. Most of the IPSC shooters in my area shoot 3+ matches per month, and the folks who want to improve their shooting practice drawing/reloading/dryfiring at home when they can't get to a range.

There's just no comparison between the two groups and it's obvious that the first group makes up the majority of folks. This might be influenced by no CCW in my state (yet), so everyday gun handling is probably pretty rare outside of LEO's.

No matter how sophisitcated the training, nothing can duplicate going from zero to sixty in a second or two when your life hangs in the balance. Any type of training diminishes the element of surprise and the perception of personal danger.
 
Good comments, JohnKSa.

Most defense-type firearms instructors can tell you that they often see people who are good, self-taught marksmen, but whose gunhandling/safety skills suck.

You see guys who can hit a gnat's eyeball at 25 yards, but who cannot for the life of them clear a double-feed in less than 10 minutes. Why should they be able to? On the range, there's always plenty of time.

You see similarly excellent shots who can't seem to keep track of their muzzle direction.

Good instructors don't allow students to sweep other people even while learning, of course. But you can tell when a student has no idea where the muzzle is pointed and when they are about to sweep someone else if you don't stop them. So that's when you step in and catch the guy's attention. Again. For the 14th time that day, you suggest that he should not just allow his gun hand to drop to his side after firing, but should instead deliberately keep track of the muzzle at all times while the gun is in his hand. And then you watch him do it again after the next string, because he's literally had years of doing things that way, and only a couple of hours of being told to pay attention. You cannot undo years of mis-training in a couple of hours, no matter how hard you try.

The thing that really amazes me is that these guys often show up in a class not because they really think they need to learn anything, but because it'll be a fun vacation, or because they wanted to take their wife/adult son/best buddy to a class with them (so the other person would learn to shoot), or because they just want to have better looking targets. They don't come to class to learn everything we teach, just to improve their marksmanship skills. And marksmanship is the one thing they've already got down pretty well!

These guys often don't know they need to learn safe gunhandling; after all, they've never shot themselves so they're already safe shooters -- aren't they? And even if they carry regularly, they don't know they need to learn to quickly and decisively manipulate a gun, clear malfunctions quickly, or draw smoothly, because they figure pulling the trigger is all the gun-handling skill they'll need. They don't need that high-speed, low-drag stuff. They've got high quality guns, so they'll never have a jam under pressure. And they they they won't need to know how to draw safely and smoothly, first because they think they are already safe (even though they aren't) and second because they don't think they need to be the fastest gun in the west (they don't -- but smooth is not only fast, it's also safe. Fumbly is not only slow -- it's unsafe...)

</rant off>

pax
 
Thanks for starting this great thread, JohnKSa. As a beginner, I can see the points where I'm far from perfect and the areas where I'm doing Ok. I'm fairly lucky in that I have minimal previous experience with "out with the boys at a quarry" so I'll hopefully find it easier to learn to not do anything too incredibly stupid.

Thanks for all the replies as well,
Mark(pscyho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
good post, john, thanks for sharing those thoughts. you are absolutely right: people who go from leisurely target shooting into a stressful shooting scenario will suddenly lose a lot of their motor skills, coordination, and other abilities.

i recently took a class for combat pistol shooting where the instructors created artifical stress and pressure, drilling us on countless maneuvers such as proper draw, combat vs. tactical reload, failure drills, turn and shoot, etc.

it was interesting to say the least to see how your behavior and abilities change under pressure. people ran out of ammo, dropped mags, forgot how to operate their safeties, failed to follow instructions, etc. etc. etc.

shooting takes on a whole new dimension in those scenarios. the only way to be prepared is to practice constantly to be able to know your gun and perform all these maneuvers without looking and thinking from pure muscle memory so your brain can focus on the actual task at hand.
 
LEOs do it too...at first

During my brief stint as an LEO, I saw those same mistakes. Luckily they were at the academy. The first run though the practical shooting course was similar to what John discribed. We were required to stay at the range until those habits were broken.

It's been a while since I have done any practical shooting. I'd like to give it a try sometime soon to see if those bad habits came back. My main mistake was the one where you rack the slide during a tactical reload and end up dumping a good round.

Thanks John, we all needed to hear your story.
 
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