Pre Model 10 S&W M&P .38 Special question

[Old Fuff]

Please keep the grips with the gun, don't sell them. Harder and harder to find old guns with original grips on them. You can store them if you want, but if you sell the gun, please put the original grips back on it, don't be a profiteer.

I know of two cases where a S&W revolver with hard-rubber grips that were absolutely mint, was accidentally dropped on a hard floor. After that the stocks were no longer intact on one side.

Those on the revolver that's the subject of this thread are apparently cracked (hopefully only on one side), and once cracked a complete split is much more likely.

For that reason on those guns which I still use, and still have original hard-rubber grips, have had them replaced. If or when the gun is retired the stored stocks will go back on. Otherwise they are stored with the arm they go to.

Numrich/Gun Parts Corp. are currently offering both checkered wood, as well as exact duplicate of the black hard-rubber kind for K-frame Smith's - but made from modern plastic. I consider them to be an excellent solution for those guns still in service.

 

[rswartsell]

Pristine hard rubber original Smith grips have gotten very hard to find, and yes people with the need for them to make a collectible Smith of this vintage complete can be motivated to reflect that in the price they will pay. I don't think the finish on the OP's find rises to collectible, and with the large number produced I don't think there is any profit to be had in putting that much into a collector grade M&P, but that isn't the sole reason for collecting and collectors want what they want. I saw a set go for $150.00 3 years ago. Try to find a set for less. Likely you will only locate repros.

Old Fuff shared a reason why they are a bit rare nowadays. I think they may become a bit more brittle with advanced age.

P.S. I found an antique grip dealer online that has a set of round butt hand ejector hard rubbers for sale, you have to e-mail for a price. I will update with their answer when I get it.

 

[StrawHat]

A nice set of smooth stag would look nice on that revolver.

Kevin

 

[Jim K]

For good copies of the original grips, check www.gungrip.com/. They are plastic so there is no breakage problem. I have couple of guns which had a broken hard rubber grip on side, so I replaced only that side. I can't tell the difference between the grips and if I didn't know, I would be certain both were original.

Hard rubber (gutta percha) is a natural product that when new was flexible, but it becomes hard and brittle over time as we know all too well.

Jim

 

[BCRider]

The lovely patina of age and considered use speaks volumes of this gun's trip through life. If anyone says that you should get it re-blued smack them upside the head for the thought.

New grips for sure to preserve the old. But otherwise that is one handsome looking firearm with the sort of wear that calls for respect!

Given the shape you say it's in I'd have eagerly paid double and still been happy that I got a great deal.

These old fixed sight guns were set up to shoot 158gn cast lead bullets at a given proper speed. If you reload your own and work up the loads to where the gun shoots to the POA you'll have matched your load to the sights and the rounds will be at the power level originally intended for the gun. And such loads should ensure that the gun doesn't batter itself loose any time soon.

In case you need the refresher slower bullets tend to print higher than the POA. So load up until the holes work down to the POA.

 

[rswartsell]

I do not doubt Jim K for even a moment, I always enjoy his posts. The repros though are modern petroleum based plastics. True vintage will be latex based (from one exotic tree or another) primitave "early" plastics. That is why they become fragile with advanced age, why they are rare and why the true "purists" will pay for them. They are an endangered species.

A visual inspection may not disclose a difference, but astute collectors will.

 

[highpower]

Not to put too fine a point on it, that gun is NOT a "pre-Model 10". It is a Model of 1905, first or second change hand ejector. The distinction is that the pre war guns had the long action. Very shortly after WWII they changed the action to what is known as the short action lock work.

The post war K frame guns have become known to collectors as "pre" models, but S&W never called them that. For instance, the fixed sight K frame guns with tapered barrels were called the Military and Police model. Adjustable sighted K frames were called Masterpiece models.

 

[Radagast]

It's a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905 1st Change or Second Change, depending on whether it has two pins in the extractor or not. 4th Change started around serial number 240000 or so.

 

[highpower]

Oops, my bad. That's what I get for posting before my first cup of coffee has had time to enter my system.

Post changed to correct information.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, rswartsell,

Yes, I can tell the difference and so, as you say, can most collectors, at least if they remove the grips. Still, when the choice is between broken and cracked originals and repros, I choose the repros. Originals are expensive precisely because so many broke, to the point where like new originals are often almost as expensive as the gun they will go on. Plus, on some makes (e.g., Colt) the original grips are numbered to the gun so even originals are not really "correct"; just a bit more correct than repros.

The story of gutta percha is interesting in itself, and I recommend Googling the term for more info.

Jim

 

[WardenWolf]

I have a nearly identical model, a circa 1955 Smith & Wesson M&P. Mine has been nicely refinished with parkerizing and has the target trigger, though. Cost me $250. I was going to get a Victory, but then I found this. The grips weren't original, so I put Victory grips on it, which look great and are oh so comfortable:

http://i.imgur.com/ZyuMVF8.jpg?1

I contacted Smith & Wesson and asked about +P loads. They said they do NOT recommend +P loads with this model. That's the word from the manufacturer.

Now, that said, here is how that should be interpreted: +P as a self-defense load in one of these revolvers is perfectly acceptable. It's not going to blow it up, and a cylinder or two isn't going to cause any appreciable wear. However, they should not be fed a steady diet of +P. If you keep the gun on your nightstand, go ahead and load +P. If you're taking it for a range trip, use standard-velocity .38 Special instead.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Any Smith revolver for $200 is a good deal. No +P ammo in the model 10, the frame/cylinder is not made to take it. Still a great gun though. My deal of the century was a Model 66-2 with the .500 wide hammer and trigger for $250 a few months ago. My 617 is pictured behind it.

 

[rswartsell]

Jim K,

Thanks for the response. My point was that I made the remark about collector value before I knew of the crack. Any chance of paying for the gun by selling the grips went south with that disclosure.

I will continue to read your posts with interest.

P.S. My subsequent remarks were for the edification of the unknown observers. I'm sure you could inform me on many things. Just to re-clarify, there is a collectors demand for pristine original S&W period correct hard rubbers, round butts especially.

 

[evan price]

There is no difference between a Military & Police revolver made in 1956 and a Model 10 made in 1957. Yet S&W will say the Model 10 is OK with +P and the M&P is not.
This is because its an easy demarcation line, not because there is a difference.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I have a 1st change hand ejector almost identical to the OP's. I would absolutely NOT recommend firing +P in the revolver. I think the OP will find that the revolver will be very functional with plain old 38 Special. I also have a 4th change and both are scary accurate with 158 gr LRN 38 special loads.