Pregnancy and guns

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Gus Dddysgrl

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Lancaster, PA
I know I haven't been on for a while, but I'm still around. I am carrying almost daily and life is good.
(not carrying because of Student Teaching and not being allowed to carry at the school.) :banghead:

Many new things have happened in the last month or so. We moved into a bigger apartment with an extra bedroom that will soon be used for our baby room. Yes, I am pregnant. :what: :rolleyes: :D Yes, that means Brian Williams will be a grandpa!!!!!:neener: :evil: :uhoh: Heehee.

So to keep this gun related....what strategies and what methods need to be changed now that I am pregnant?
I haven't gone to the range in a while, but would like to get back. Should I go early in the pregnancy when the baby doesn't have fully developed ears or maybe later? Does it even matter?
What else do I need to consider gunwise now that I am pregnant?
Also does anyone know the rules on packing in a diaper bag? Is that a good idea or would it be hard to get to? ;)

Hope all is well. Be back soon

Gus
 
Avoid Lead Exposure

The one thing I see in all warning labels is "exposure to lead can cause reproductive problems". Not sure what this means exactly, but you might ask your OB-Gyn.

Lead is in bullets and sometimes in primers, so that means that lead dust will be present in the air at the range. Theoretically, outdoor ranges should have a lower concentration due to the wind, but who knows?

I doubt the concussion/report would cause hearing damage to the fetus, but I am not a doctor, so again, ask the doc. I would make a bet that the doc will tell you to avoid guns entirely and give you lots of anti-gun rhetoric.

My best suggestion is to have someone else clean your guns VERY well (so you don't have to touch solvents) and practice dry fire until the baby is born and probably until you stop breast feeding. Just make sure to wash your hads well after you put the gun away to avoid any potential contamination.

Congratulations and best wishes to your family!
 
Things you might consider

When my wife was pregnant she was discouraged on carrying, but after a few remarks from me like, "Now you have a responsiblity to protect not just yourself but your baby" and "A young women is a easy target, and especially a pregnant women."

After that she carried again. (from what my wife tells me) For women who are trying to keep up with clothing style you do not have a whole lot of options on carrying on the person, soooo women carry in pershes, hand bags, back packs even. And that is what the BG rober wants.

So when you put your bag down, under a desk at work, at your feet in a restaurant, in a stroller so you can push your child you are now an unarmed person, even when it is arms length away. easy prey for the snag and grab

When carrying in a bag I beleive you have to be extra careful, extra alert, and never set the bag down, never disarm yourself.
 
Congratulations! My daughter is now 18 months old, and I can't believe how fast she's growing up. Enjoy this time in your life.

As for shooting, I'd avoid indoor ranges b/c of the lead exposure. Wash your hands after shooting, and have your SO do all the gun cleaning afterward - preferably outside your apartment - as you don't want to be exposed to solvents right now.

If you're used to wearing a holster in your pants you'll have to find a new method of carry. The waistbands on maternity clothes just aren't designed to take the weight of a firearm.

If you haven't considered a way to secure your guns yet - a lot of childless couples don't - now is a very good time. That baby will be a very curious and fearless toddler before you know it.

Otherwise common sense is key.
 
Lead is insidious and accumulates. If you're going to shoot - as my wife's OB who is familiar with these things says - avoid all exposure to lead. That means long clothes, respirator, changing clothes immediately after shooting and washing exposed areas with cold water, outdoor ranges and CleanFire ammunition. Her advice was to avoid shooting in general while pregnant. You won't lose that much skill, and damage from lead is forever.

There's some debate about damage to developing ears from the noise of shooting. Again, probably better safe than sorry unless you can find size 478 wrap-around earmuffs :)
 
You can get "leadless" practice rounds for a reasonable price. They do have lead cores in the bullets, but the copper jacket surrounds the bullet and the primers have no lead in them.

Primers are the primary source of lead exposure, BTW, not the bullets, since many primers emit lead vapor.

Remington UMC sells "leadless" rounds, for example.

In an indoor range, you're exposed to others' lead, too, so that's a no-no.

Leadless rounds, outdoors, should be okay.

Then you get to the noise. We've avoided having our forthcoming kid around gunfire because of his developing ears. "Better safe than sorry" is a good motto.
 
Pregnancy and Firearms

Lead exposure is definately a concern but as a physician and an expectant father I advised my wife to stop her trips to the range shortly after we found out she was pregnant. Human ear development begins very early at around 23-28 days of embyonic development. This is about the time most women find out they are pregnant. Better to hold off and ensure a happy healthy hearing baby. Of additional concern the baby is surrounded by liquid until birth. Water is about 20 times more efficient at conducting sound than air. This would have the effect of amplifying the sound of gunfire. Best to hold off live fire until the baby is safe.

By all means keep practicing, dry fire, and draw practice, With an unloaded weapon is still a valid means of practice. Follow proper handgun safety and all should be well.

Carry can get awkward. My wife has had to change to off body carry because most other methods were too uncomfortable or unreasonable but I suspect that that would be an individual choice. We found that most methods of carry are still fairly resonable up until the last trimester.

Hope this helps,

DocMustang
 
Congratulations!

When my daughter was born, I became keeper of the diaper bag. I continued to carry on my person, but I did add extra ammo, a 2nd flashlight & sometimes a 2nd handgun in the diaper bag.

Since then, a few things from the diaper bag have made their way into my range bag. Wet Ones are just convienent & that hand sanitizer does a good job until you can get to a real restroom. I even recycled the changing pad into a bench mat.

I know this isn'y particularly helpful, but at least it's kinda on topic.
 
Congrats.

Similar situation with my wife when she was pregnant 2X. Unfortunately my wife is a nurse and we confirmed it with the docs (a shooting friend of mine is also a Doctor), you got to give up shooting until the baby is born. Some gung ho people might tell you otherwise, but this is your baby. During the early stages you cannot even dye your hair, so you should definately avoid any lead exposure, which can cause birth defects and learning issues. The noise factor is another issue, no one is sure exactly what regular exposure to loud noises will do to an unborn child, but again better safe that sorry.

Some ranges might actually turn you away when you get really far along. A guy who works at my range had to turn away a very pregnant woman and here husband once, it is a liability issue for them.

It stinks, I know, but I would still carry, just wash your hands after handling bullets and watch the cleaning chemicals. You could get an airsoft gun to keep your shooting skills fresh.
 
Stay away from gun fire and gun ranges until the little one arrives. That's what my daughter did with both of her pregnancies.
 
About this time last year, I endeavored to separate fact/research and risks from myth/anti-gun bias regarding pregnancy and what an OB/GYN may advise. I wrote it all up in an article on my blog published here.

I pretty much stand by what I said then. I'll go ahead and cut and paste it here as well.
Oh, and Congratulations!

The safety of firearms training during pregnancy is often questioned. In fact, it is asked often enough that the topic demands serious study. As women fill the ranks of our police forces and military, they are compelled to undergo firearms training, and organizations are compelled to realistically evaluate the risks should these women be pregnant. Health and safety considerations often mentioned include noise infarction to the fetus, as well as lead toxicity. Most obstetricians and family physicians agree that a pregnant woman should not expose her baby to a firing range environment, but the question remains, is this recommendation made in ignorance of the actual environment? Is the demonstrated anti-gun stance of the AMA and other physician organizations a cause to dismiss the available data? Searches of medical literature reveal no definitive answer.

Shooting ranges, particularly indoor shooting ranges, have been recognized as potential sources of lead exposure since the 1970s. Airborne lead dust is produced by the combustion of lead-containing primers, the friction of bullets against the gun barrel, and fragmentation as bullets strike the backstop. Lead dust inhaled into the lungs is extremely prevalent, with an absorption rate near 100% once inhaled. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has established acceptable standards for airborne lead exposure in the workplace, including indoor firing ranges, since 1979. Guidelines for proper design and operation of indoor ranges include use of a separate ventilation systems for firing lanes, written protocols for range maintenance, use of wet mopping or HEPA vacuuming instead of dry sweeping to remove dust and debris, as well as the use of copper jacketed bullets. How closely an indoor range follows these guidelines determines the level of the hazard present.

Still, an extensive body of research is available showing that any lead exposure is harmful to the developing fetus. Lead crosses the placenta and is transmitted from the mother's bloodstream directly to the fetus. Lead exposure during pregnancy has been associated with serious, irreversible complications, including spontaneous abortion, premature membrane rupture, preeclampsia, pregnancy induced hypertension, and neurobehavioral effects in infants and children. Even at low levels, lead exposure has been associated with preterm delivery, congenital abnormalities, and decreased birth weight, length, and head circumference. The effects of lead poisoning in children are well documented. It is not a stretch to postulate that the same or even greater effects can occur to the central nervous system while it is still developing in the womb.

Loud noise is usually considered to be detrimental during pregnancy. In some countries, health regulations forbid pregnant women from working in surroundings with a continuous noise level greater than 80 dB or a rapid-impulse noise level greater than 40 dB, which is much less than the noise of a firearm. In the United States, the OSHA permissible exposure limit for rapid-impulse noise is 140 dB, with additional regulations for continuous noise. The sound levels of firearms are about 125 to 140 dB for rimfire rifles; 140 to 150 dB for rimfire pistols; and 150 to 160 dB for centerfire rifles, pistols, and shotguns.

Intrauterine measurements show that the fetus is not significantly protected against loud noises. One study in human volunteers found a maximal intrauterine noise attenuation of 10 dB at 4000 Hz. In a study of sheep, the noise attenuation was 20 dB at 4000 Hz, but the noise inside the uterus was 2 to 5 dB greater at 250 Hz. In comparison, foam plugs offer attenuation of 12 to 20 dB and are considered to be the least effective hearing protection. Common sense tells a person that noise travels more quickly and has greater effect in a fluid, such as is present in the womb.

Fetal response to sounds begins at about 16 weeks, and the ear is structurally complete by 24 weeks. At 25 weeks, a baby will move in rhythm to an orchestra drum. According to The American Academy of Pediatrics, the intensity at which a fetus perceives sound is approximately 40 dB at 27-29 weeks, and decreases to a nearly adult level of 13.5 dB by 42 weeks of gestation. It would appear that even though the structures are all in place, the sense is not fully developed until birth. The truth is, we simply do not yet know at what point the fetus is most susceptible to noise damage of the ear.

Noise exposure during pregnancy has been associated with several disorders, including miscarriage, intrauterine growth retardation, preterm delivery, hearing loss in babies and children, altered immune response in the fetus, and hypertension. A combined exposure to noise and lead seems to have an increased toxicity, causing heart lesions, which are not observed for those agents alone.

Besides lead, firearms training exposes the shooter to other metals, including barium, antimony, copper, and arsenic. These metals can be toxic, depending on the concentration. The concentrations at a shooting session seem to be nontoxic for adults, but the risks have not been evaluated for pregnant women or the developing fetus she carries. Another source of chemical hazards related to firearms are the cleaning products used, many of which contain organic solvents. Some of these solvents are known to cause birth defects.

The available scientific knowledge does not provide evidence that firearm use is safe during pregnancy. Lead and noise exposure at both indoor and outdoor shooting ranges has been demonstrated to be significant. Data has shown that noise and lead exposure are significantly, undeniably toxic to the fetus during pregnancy. Thus, the only responsible recommendation that can be made is that a woman avoid the range environment while pregnant. Period. The consequences of not doing so are potentially devastating.

Pregnant women should not shoot firearms, unless in self-defense, and should avoid shooting ranges altogether. Women who are breastfeeding should only shoot lead-free ammunition. Pregnant women should not clean their guns because of possible exposure to chemicals. The guns should be cleaned by other people and away from the pregnant woman.

If a pregnant woman chooses to attend a firearms training session regardless, the following steps are recommended to reduce the health hazards to the fetus:

Use copper jacketed ammunition with lead-free primers

Shoot outdoors to reduce concentrated exposure to noise and chemicals

Shoot the smallest possible number of rounds

Wear a respirator with a high efficiency particulate air filter

Wash hands and face carefully after a shooting session with soap and cool water

Avoid drinking and eating within 1 hour after shooting session

Use a silencer if possible

Wear heavy clothing that covers the abdomen

Do not pick up spent brass

Do not clean firearms afterwards

Shower and change clothing afterwards

If you are an expectant father and are participating in firearms training:

Wash your hands before leaving the range

Launder your range clothing yourself

Clean your guns away from your wife

The precious miracle of new life is a gift that deserves protection. The effects of range exposure to the unborn baby are undeniable, irreversible, and could destroy your child's potential forever. Do not take the risk. Protect your child by avoiding the range environment during pregnancy just as you would protect your family by any means necessary if threatened. Parenting begins before birth.

Here is another excellent link.
 
When my ex wife was 7 months pregnant with our daughter, we went to a July 4th fireworks show. The boom from the exploding fireworks would make the baby jump, so I would conclude that gunfire would likely be loud enough to irritate, if not injure an unborn baby's hearing.
 
As has been stated above, the lead exposure is the most critical. Some have mentioned "Clean" rounds, but be careful here. I have swabbed "clean" FMJ rounds for lead and found measurable amounts. The best thing is to wash up very well after handling ammo of any kind. You will find as my wife did that you will/should not shoot for the 10 months you are carrying the baby. Once the baby is born, hygeine is extremely important. Lead can be carried home on shoes, clothes, hair, skin, etc. I didn't let my wife shoot until my son moved from primarily breast milk to cow's milk. I'm a scientist so I am a little paranoid about exposure to toxins. One thing to conside is to pick up a couple of quick lead tests. http://www.esca-tech.com/TestKit.htm

I use these every time I go to the range.
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1233

Good luck and enjoy the quiet time leading up to the delivery, it goes quick! And you will never be ready for the arrival, so don't sweat the small stuff. ;)
 
First if there is a time to carry it seems like when pregnant would be a great time, murder is the #1 cause of death for pregnant people.

As far as shooting while pregnant in my opinion it is better not to risk it, even if you go through the trouble of shooting lead free rounds the people that shoot at the range before you and beside you wont be.

Lead exposure can be measured but there isn't a whole lot you can do to reduce the sound impact to the developing baby. It is proven babies can hear the sound of their parents voices in the womb, they are sure as heck going to hear a gunshot.

Babies can have plenty of problems when not exposed to lead or loud noises, is it really worth the risk?

Get some snap caps and dry fire, you'll save a ton of money and be more accurate than ever when you return to the range.
 
Lead exposure is definately a concern but as a physician and an expectant father I advised my wife to stop her trips to the range shortly after we found out she was pregnant. Human ear development begins very early at around 23-28 days of embyonic development. This is about the time most women find out they are pregnant. Better to hold off and ensure a happy healthy hearing baby. Of additional concern the baby is surrounded by liquid until birth. Water is about 20 times more efficient at conducting sound than air. This would have the effect of amplifying the sound of gunfire. Best to hold off live fire until the baby is safe.

That's dead wrong.
Sound transfers extremely poorly from air to water. It's called an impedance mismatch. http://cc.usu.edu/~dgsinex/courses/SHS311_notes/1-sound/impedance.htm

This phenomenon is well known to scuba divers who try to converse underwater, yelling which would be very loud when done normally, can barely be heard while underwater on a dive because of impedance mismatch. http://physics.itsbaxter.com/sound.html
You know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing... incomplete knowledge about something and only having one half the puzzle can lead to improper decisions.

I don't mean to offend by this, but where did you get your doctorate from and can your credentials be confirmed? I understand you might not be OB-Gyn or your work doesn't have to do with things like this.
 
For
example, water is about 800 times more dense than air and sound travels
about 5 times faster in water than in air. So the relative impedance is
about 1/4000. So, the reflection coefficient is 99.95%. This means that
water is a really good reflector of sound. This is why you can't hear
people talking to you under water. Sound doesn't travel from air to water
well.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-06/993649777.Ph.r.html

An even better reference, since this myth has come up before. Water appears to be an extremely good insulator against air-carried sounds. A reflection coefficient of 99.95%. The gunshot basically silent to an embryo. If water were around our heads during firing, it'd be many times more effective than any muffs/earplugs we could get.
 
Congratulations Gus Dddysgrl! We just had our first child last week.

+1 to liquids transmitting sounds better. During her pregnancy by wife did accompany me to the range a couple times in her 8th month. She noticed that every time a rifle was fired, our baby 'jumped' in response to the muzzle blast.

That was proof enough for her to stay away from the range for a while.
 
thanks for the post XavierBreath: printing and saving.

The Mrs. and I have talked about this and when we decide to spawn (soon I hope) she is going to get an Air soft copy of her gun. She'll practice with that to avoid sound and chemicals. Several of those Air Soft look alikes are pretty good copies.

She'll still carry as long as possible. I might see if she'll thake my P3AT and get one of those neck holsters for her.
 
Razorburn,
I don't mean to offend by this, but where did you get your doctorate from and can your credentials be confirmed?
Before you request to see another man's credentials, it is customary to show your own. Care to share?

We are not talking about yelling at a scuba diver from a boat. We are not talking about some graduate student's physics dissertation either. We are talking about the possible permanent, irreversible damage that may be caused to a developing human being. We are talking about the human body and studies that have already been done regarding how sound outside the womb affects the fetus, not the physics of sound waves traveling between air and water. I'll list a few related studies I quickly googled up below, but any pregnant woman who has attended a fireworks display after three months gestation can tell you that the fetus reacts to the sound, thus lending credence to the theory that sound reaches the fetus.

The difference between a graduate student's findings and medical findings could be the volume of fluid in the study, the fluid being in an enclosed space versus open water, or even the skin/tissues forming a tympanic type membrane. More likely, the difference is that the graduate student was not performing studies with pregnant patients, much less publishing medical results. The medical evidence is heavy, indeed conclusive, that the fetus is affected by sound. The risks/benefits are still being studied. Meanwhile, mothers-to-be read to, and play music for their unborn children.

http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/6/971

http://www.joem.org/pt/re/joem/user...ZTQ7GvZXcFgTPs0!-613801044!-949856144!8091!-1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6145290&dopt=Abstract

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0015028202046940

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0009-3920(193512)6:4<253:TMROTH>2.0.CO;2-P

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7299095&dopt=Abstract

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0009-3920(193206)3:2<175:APROAS>2.0.CO;2-L

http://www.jultrasoundmed.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/9/499

http://www.birthpsychology.com/lifebefore/sound1.html

http://www.obgyn.net/displayarticle.asp?page=/ENGLISH/PUBS/ARTICLES/auditory

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1471-0528.1985.tb04866.x

http://www.springerlink.com/content/4y5unwr93rl0u8kx/

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/tul/psychtoday9809.html
 
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XavierBreath, et.al. Let's not get stuck on the "fetal hearing loss" issue, this is not the true risk to the fetus. Babies in the womb can definately hear and respond to the muffled sounds of the outside world, but lead is the main developmental risk. Various genetic factors can play into infant hearing impairment. Sounds in the womb are attenuated by the skin, muscle, uterine wall, and amniotic fluid. The interface between air and amniotic fluid is not direct. Sound will penetrate this interface by deflecting the tissue (skin, muscle, etc) and propagate the wave through the fetal environment. Again, don't get hung up on the noise issue when serious nerological impairment can result from lead exposure. What is taken in by the mother is transfered to fetus very efficiently. Bottom line, your shooting pleasure is not worth the risk to the unborn. My advise is to wait until you have delivered and stopped breast feeding (if you are doing that) then pay extremely close attention to hygiene. I'll post my credentials for those interested, BA in Chemistry with Honors, small libral arts college in the midwest, PhD in Biophysics, ISU. :cool:
 
Let us also not concentrate on one risk so heavily another risk that could be equally dangerous is disregarded. Loud noises obviously could be a risk to more than just the hearing of the developing fetus. There isn't a question on whether noises can be heard from the womb, we know they can be.

In order to make a responsible decision all risks and benefits that are known about must be considered.

We should be able to agree that at a minimum lead and loud noises are not good for a developing child, why then subject them to completely avoidable risks based on theories that the risk can be managed and that it *should* be OK?

Plus if complications or defects occur the parents are in a situation where they will question whether or not shooting had anything to do with the possibly life long complications of their child, doesn't seem worth it.
 
Guys, there are definitely risks. The question of how significant they are is a matter of some debate, but everyone is in agreement about their existence. The question is whether the pleasure of continuing a hobby during pregnancy is worth the possible damage to the embryo or fetus.

And the significant danger that the rancor will drip off the page and sour the new mother's milk :scrutiny:
 
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