Preparing for bad times while it is good

[brewer12345]

It is currently a buyer's market for ammo, components and firearms. I expect it to stay this way for at least another year and probably another 3. After that, it is anyone's guess. Knowing that times are good, I want to make sure that I have set myself up well for when times are not good. Fire code where I live limits me to 20 pounds of powder and 10k primers, but loaded ammo and primed hulls/brass do not count. I don't really want to stray over the line with the fire code for various reasons.

I think the smart thing to do is use what I have to make up a bunch of primed brass/hulls and loaded ammo as I can and stay topped up on components. I shoot a lot of 20 gauge trap, so it isn't hard to pick powders that are easily applicable to handgun loads. Most of the rifle shooting I do is with pistol caliber lever actions, so a modicum of components in a couple calibers will do me for the true high powered rifle stuff I do. Bullets I am building up a stockpile on, since there is no fire code issue there. I think I have enough hulls/brass since I am pretty careful to hang onto it. Anything obvious I am missing?

I wish I didn't feel like I need to do this stuff, but we all know how quickly the winds can change.

 

[otisrush]

I've been having similar thoughts - at least from the very basic perspective that things are good now.....which means it's time to stock up.

When times are good it's easy to forget how frustrating it is/was when times are bad. I think a lot of the shortages are a result of panic buying....and I certainly don't want to incite that. But it seems to me it is prudent to methodically and periodically acquire components so when things do change we're *not* panicked.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Can you build a shed? If so if it's beyond a certain distance from the house I'm willing to bet you can double your components.

Since I started shooting about five years ago, I tried to buy what I could when I could. I'd pick up brass when I went to the range and buy twice what I shot. I still do this except I now do it with components. The idea is to keep building up a supply to get through the next hard time.

As a fairly newbie who started during the worst time in history, it hasn't been easy. It's been compounded but some bad personal stuff and a harsh economic climate. So I'm glad now that I have the basics covered. But I feel I'm a long way from where I'd like to be.

I will say that having a supply of dry food, and being able to get by a rough time was an experience. Unfortunately I look at it as just a light practice to what may come. Of course I hope and pray that we never see that day but all signs aren't good.

Anyway, my suggestion is each person should build up theory supplies as they can. Be it food, ammo, weapons, clothing, essentials, etc. be prepared for hard times as it's better to be prepared and not need it then need it and not be prepared.

 

[Orcon]

Sounds like you're doing it right. I don't know if you shoot enough to worry about needing to replace springs, barrels, etc. But if you do, it's also a good time to assemble a few parts kits for your favorite firearms.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." -Agent K, Men in Black

 

[brewer12345]

I have thought about components in a shed, but storing powder and primers in a shed when summer temps get near 100 seems dangerous, no?

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I have thought about components in a shed, but storing powder and primers in a shed when summer temps get near 100 seems dangerous, no?

I'm not an expert but you could check with the powder companies. I'd think with the conditions our military experience that it would be ok I'd you add ventilation. But I'm sure you'll get folks saying it would be bad. Best to find a real authority to see what temps components can withstand.

 

[FROGO207]

It would not be dangerous because it might get 100* but the high temps will shorten the life of your propellant. A garage/shed might be the answer with enough insulation and an AC unit installed for climate control. Me, I have several relatives, another property that has a house that is heated, and several reloading friends. I store the max allowed at several locations. So max allowed X 6 presently. Yes if you can possibly put back enough supplies for five years normal shooting and then maintain that level by resupplying as needed it would be about ideal IMHO. Then if things dry up you can curtail your use and/or ration what you use until things get better. Planning for two presidential terms of disruption seems to be what is now the norm I am afraid. I also have the means to smelt lead and mold bullets/round balls in several key calibers as well. Yes other things like paper manuals with reloading data and firearms info/breakdowns is also good to have. Then you get into what to have if you can't work or resupply or loose power/internet for a month----or six or----. If nothing else it will always be a good hedge against future price increases like I have witnessed happen over the last 40 or so years of reloading.

 

[LiveLife]

Best to find a real authority to see what temps components can withstand.

150° F according to SAAMI - http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_201-Primers.pdf

"5. Modern sporting ammunition primers will not absorb moisture under normal or even severe conditions of atmospheric humidity. There is no advantage to be gained from air-tight containers. The factory containers in which they are packaged need only normal conditions of storage. They should be kept dry and not exposed to high temperatures (in excess of 150° F)."


As to storage of primers according to SAAMI:

"Recommended Storage of Primers

Storage cabinets containing only primers are recommended. These cabinets should be ruggedly constructed of lumber at least 1” nominal thickness to delay or minimize the transmission of heat in the event of fire. SAAMI recommends against storing primers in sealed or pressurized containers.

Keep your storage and use area clean. Make sure the surrounding area is free of trash or other readily combustible materials.

Be sure your storage area is free from any possible sources of excessive heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, water heaters, etc.

Do not store primers where they can be exposed to direct sunlight. Avoid storage in areas where mechanical or electrical equipment is in operation. Do not store primers in the same area with solvents, flammable gases, or highly combustible materials. Store primers only in their original factory containers. Do not transfer the primers from this approved container into one which is not approved. The use of glass bottles, fruit jars, plastic or metal containers, or other bulk containers for primer storage is extremely hazardous.

Do not smoke in areas where primers are stored. Place appropriate “No Smoking” signs in these areas.

Do not store primers in any area where they might be exposed to gun fire, bullet impact, or ricochets.

Do not store primers with propellant powders or any other highly combustible materials so as to avoid involving primers in a fire as much as possible.

Observe all regulations regarding quantity and methods of storing primers.

National Fire Protection Association
495 Explosive Materials Code

11-5 Small Arms Primers

11-5.4 No more than 10,000 small arms primers may be stored in residences."

 

[RPZ]

If you are just looking at storing for a rainy day, why not buy as much powder and primers as you want, case it with dehumidifying agents in PVC pipes, seal the threads with RTV silicone and bury it in the yard? It is not in the house so fire regs should not apply.

 

[LiveLife]

10,000 limit applies to storage of primers "inside" residences.

So stock up now on primers and store extra quantities with family and friends.

You could also build a shed to store extra primers far away from the house. Most counties allow construction of storage shed less than 100-120 square feet without a permit.

 

[wally]

I did this circa 2005 as part of my Retirement Portfolio, best performing investment

I wish I had more primers and powder from back then, had to replenish, did it back in Sept, before the election as prices had retreated some and availability was much improved over what it had been since Sandy Hook. Ended up I paid a bit extra for piece of mind in case the old Hag won, but I'll never complain about it!

I've been retired since mid 2013, and should have enough component bullets on hand to last to 2020 or so. I really get a kick out of opening a 500 round box of hard cast .45ACP and seeing a $19.95 price tag

 

[FROGO207]

As far as that goes a garage or out building that is not attached to a residence is NOT a residence. There are separate rules on propellant/primers storage in a business, non residential building, or in a powder magazine under SAAMI rules as well. I was trying to keep from having to provide environmental control of a separate space though.

I see BDS and I were typing at the same time.

 

[LiveLife]

I did this circa 2005 as part of my Retirement Portfolio, best performing investment

I wish I had more primers and powder from back then

I stocked up on primers when Powder Valley was selling Wolf primers for $14/1000. Wish I had bought more as I am down to last two boxes.

Recently received S&B primers from Cabela's at $19.99/1000. If load testing goes well, I will be stocking up for retirement as 10-20 years from now, we could be paying $40/1000 for primers and posting on THR, "Remember when primers were $20/1000?"

As to bullets, at 12,000 quantity and 5% THR discount, RMR 115 gr FMJ comes down to $71.25/1000 shipped (Must enter thehighroad5 and THR ID in order comment box) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets-for-reloading/9mm-115-grain-rmr-fmj/?v=7516fd43adaa

I just opened my 4th container of Promo and will be buying more. At $112 for 8 lbs at Recob's Target Shop, it's the best deal for loading 9mm/45ACP plinking loads - http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,342.html

4.2 gr with 9mm 115 gr FMJ and 4.0 gr with 45ACP 200 gr SWC produce pleasant to shoot lighter target loads that are very accurate. 1" 10 shot groups at 25 yards with 115 gr FMJ/4.2 gr Promo out of Just Right carbine is plenty accurate for plinking fun - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-what-am-i-in-for.824002/page-3#post-10606695

 

[hdwhit]

brewer12345 wrote:
...storing powder and primers in a shed when summer temps get near 100 seems dangerous, no?

As a basis for comparison, I have kept my powder and primers in my garage (Texas or Arkansas, where the summer temperature regularly rises above 100) since the 1970's. In fact, I just used the last of the primers I had stockpiled in the early 1980's during that component drought and they have all performed fine. None of the powder has deteriorated in the sense of starting to decompose, but I do have a pound of Green Dot that is today quite a bit less energetic than it was in 1982; although the rest still delivers essentially the same velocities it did 30 years ago.

 

[hdwhit]

brewer12345 wrote:
It is currently a buyer's market for ammo, components and firearms.

It has been my experience that good values are available to be had if you look carefully and/or if you're willing to buy in bulk.

I will be retiring within the year and when I do my income will drop considerably (as will my expenses, but there will still be the need to cut a couple hundred dollars a month) so I started laying in the majority of the components I anticipate needing for the rest of my life and apart from the odd pound of powder or odd lot of brass, I'm pretty well there.

 

[thomas15]

I think it's a good idea to have at least 5 years worth of components on hand, even now.

 

[Axis II]

I was actually shocked today that some powders have gotten cheaper. when I started loading 223 several years ago benchmark was $30 at several shops. tonight its $28.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

we could be paying $40/1000 for primers

During the peak of the shortage prices for primers were about that when you could find them.

Our local Walmart carries some reloading supplies. They have packs of 100 CCi that were 3.99 each so basically $40 per 1000. Last time I checked they were down to a boy $3.7x a pack so prices are going the right ways. Sportsmans Warehouse is a boy $32 per 1000.

 

[brewer12345]

As a basis for comparison, I have kept my powder and primers in my garage (Texas or Arkansas, where the summer temperature regularly rises above 100) since the 1970's. In fact, I just used the last of the primers I had stockpiled in the early 1980's during that component drought and they have all performed fine. None of the powder has deteriorated in the sense of starting to decompose, but I do have a pound of Green Dot that is today quite a bit less energetic than it was in 1982; although the rest still delivers essentially the same velocities it did 30 years ago.

Very helpful data. Of course, you are making me want to run out and buy a couple of kegs of powder and 10k primers to stick in the lawnmower shed...

 

[cfullgraf]

Any idea of a minimum safe low temperature for primer storage?

CCI recommends storing primers in a cool, dry place avoiding extreme high or low temperatures.

High temperatures, primarily, have the the fire safety risk and I assume the low temperature limit would be due to deterioration of the primer performance.

It would be nice to know the limits on the low temperature side for storage of primers in a non-climate controlled out building for long term primer life.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

For over 25 years, I have always bought about twice what I thought I needed when it came to components, surplus ammo, and rimfire ammo. And then, I usually only bought when I found a good deal. That practice has helped me weather any droughts with no worries.

 

[horseman1]

Thanks for bringing this up. Time to do inventory. I promised myself during the last scare to never get caught with insufficient supplies again. As cfullgraf mentioned, the low temperature effects on components would be nice to know. I thought about a little refrigerator in an outbuilding as an idea during the summer months with the thermostat turned up, but I don't like the idea of a sealed box (even though the door would not actually "latch"). When reading the information provided by BDS it would seem like this might be a bad idea. I'm not sure.

 

[hdwhit]

cfullgraf wrote:
Any idea of a minimum safe low temperature for primer storage?

The same garages that I stored my powder and primers in for nearly 40 years during the 100 degree Arkansas and Texas summers also saw winter temperatures as low a 10 degrees.

 

[hdwhit]

brewer12345 wrote:
Of course, you are making me want to run out and buy a couple of kegs of powder and 10k primers to stick in the lawnmower shed...

Sorry, untended consequences.

But, my experience is that if the shed doesn't leak, has some ventilation and you aren't going to put the stuff near the roof, it will probably be okay for some years (even decades) to come.

 

[hdwhit]

ohihunter wrote:
...when I started loading 223 several years ago benchmark was $30 at several shops. tonight its $28.

Strangely enough, before it started going out of business, the Gander Mountain had most of its Hodgdon and Alliant powders for about $25 per pound and they were sending out 10% and 20% off coupons regularly that applied to components (but not loaded ammunition).

The Cabela's, Bass Pro and the local gun shops (that carry reloading supplies) are all $30 a pound and up - enough of a difference per pound that even a modest bulk order more than covers the haz-mat charges to order it on-line. I've taken to stopping at gun stores in some of the little towns in east Texas and Arkansas that I pass through when I go visit family since their prices are generally much more reasonable than the "big box" stores and the LGSs located in zip codes with six-figure median household incomes.