Preventing chain fires, without alot of grease

[shotgunmessenger96]

Thinking about getting an 1851 cap and ball revolver and I've been thinking/looking for information about how to prevent chain fires and keep the loading process fast and easy.
another post states that chain fires come from either end of the cylinder. In the front, imperfections in the chambers allow sparks to get past the ball in another chamber. In the back, sparks get past small gaps between caps and nipples.
I think if I use a lubed patch behind the ball instead of a wad, that would do an ok job of sealing off the front end from sparks, and if I have caps that fit snug on the nipples they would keep sparks out. this patch instead of wad and bore butter way would be alot faster and cleaner, but would it work?

 

[Sagetown]

Use a lead ball larger than the revolver's chamber. When it is seated, it should leave a nice thin ring of lead around the top of the chamber. The Lead Ball seals off the powder from the flash that occurs at the front of the cylinder during discharge. The lubed wad is to keep down the fouling in the barrel. Make sure your caps are seated well on the nipples.

 

[Hellgate]

I've probably owned 25 C&Bs and NEVER had a chain fire in 8-10,000 rounds fired. It is because I am ANAL about loading. I use snug fitting caps, a lube WAD under the ball, and any number of greases over the ball (crisco, automotive grease, GOOP hand cleaner, 1:3 beeswaxlive oil, AMS/OIL synthetic grease, etc).

 

[me26245]

papers

To speed reloading in the past I would "roll my own" using a cigarette paper roll up your ball and powder, twist the ends, when you reload tear the powder end open and pour the powder into the cylinder then stuff the paper and ball in after, any paper left hanging out needs to be torn off to keep it from hampering cylinder rotation. One drawback is you have to keep them dry.

 

[mykeal]

First, sparks are not what cause the out of battery chambers to fire; it's hot gas. That's why very small gaps located in places that it's hard to get to can be a problem.

Yes, a lubed overpowder wad is good insurance against a chain fire. However, the best thing is still a proper size ball and good fitting caps. If the ball leaves a complete ring of shaved lead when it's loaded then you're halfway home; the other half is ensuring the caps fit well and stay on.

 

[shotgunmessenger96]

I have a bp rife with a stainless steel no.11 nipple on it. I bought two tins of caps when I first bought it- a can of 10s and a can of 11s. the 11s fit loose and would slip off if the nipple was clean and I turned the gun upside down. the tens fit too snug and would not go on unless I pushed them on with the hammer. I ran out of 11s so I started using the 10s. I do have to use a little pressure the get them on, but the gun always goes off when I have a no.10 cap on it(and I pull the trigger).
the revolver has no.11 nipples but if i squezed no.10 caps on them, I would achieve a nice tight fit. Is this a safe idea?

 

[mykeal]

It's safe as long as the gun is pointed downrange.

Actually, today's caps are impact sensitive (years ago they could go off with just moderate pressure), and are very difficult if impossible to set off with steady pressure. However, don't forget the first and second rules of safety: always treat a gun as if it was loaded and never point it at anything you don't intend to shoot.

 

[arcticap]

About loading patched round balls in a revolver, this is from post #9:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=410840

Has Been Tried

This method has been used at thr Nationals with Great success. It really does
work well. It is a lot of extra work, You really don't gain anything over just
the plain RB. It's a real booger in the 10 min. 10 shos timed fire match.

I still wonder if powdered filler material can also help to create any degree of effective seal at the front of the chambers at all.

 

[ArmedBear]

I use grease because it's much cheaper. I use Crisco; it works fine, even as a cylinder pin lube to keep me shooting when the gun is badly fouled up.

Wads work great, and are less messy. But they are stupid expensive if you don't make them yourself.

Bore Butter works as a grease, but it's also stupid expensive compared to Crisco.

The ring of lead does mean that the bullet will seal well. Still, I feel better with a little Crisco, too.

 

[Hellgate]

Just because you get a ring of lead when you ram the ball doesnot mean you have a good seal. It is not uncommon there to be a slight lip if machining that creates an edge that shears off a ring of lead only to have the chamber opn up below it. It is a common cause of "ball creep". You could still have a loose fitting ball with a nice ring. This is why some guns have slightly beveled chamber mouths.

 

[shotgunmessenger96]

Thank you articap for the link.
using grease to seal the front ends at the range sounds ok, but in the field carrying and smearing grease then having it melt off in the heat would be cumbersome. what about a crumpled up paper wad between the powder and ball, or Me26245's method of rolling the charge and ball in paper, dumping the charge in the cylinder then just using the paper as a wad under the ball.

 

[arcticap]

I think that the effectiveness of using paper as a wad would depend on its thickness, how much is used and how hard it's rammed, compressed and formed into the shape of the cylinder.
I've been saving up wax board from dairy cartons to try out using as wads.
Using a mechanical ram should help it to form to the cylinder walls.
Waxboard isn't as rigid as fiber wads or as thick as wool wads, but if a layer or more is used it may actually scrap off some fouling as it passes through the bore.

 

[pohill]

I like real BP, but if chainfires are a big concern, stick with Pyrodex - I have never heard of any gun chainfiring that used Pyrodex. The chemically knowledgeable here could probably explain why.

 

[Elbert P . Suggins]

I almost hate to get on this post for fear that you think I am full of BS but here goes. Awhile back we were talking about filler and I posted that the best filler is ground up dried cow manure. Not bull manure cause it don't work so good. I've tried em all and cream of wheat comes a close second but cow crap has em beat. You can load your powder and fill your cylinders right to the top and your balls will compress this stuff as much as you want. Don't worry about over filling or you can also leave a little space over the dried poop and smear Crisco or bore butter on it and not have to worry about it soaking thru it and compromising your powder like it does with some other fillers and wads. And I realize that cow crap might not be available in abundance on your grocery shelf like cream of wheat but I only brought this up as a reminder that sometimes there are alternatives albeit strange but usable none the less.

 

[pohill]

Sounds good but I shoot crappy enough as it is...ba-boom
How do you get the cows to poop in the cylinder?
Any udder ideas?

 

[shotgunmessenger96]

Do you keep the cow crap in jars or just happen to find it out there every time you need to reload?

 

[madcratebuilder]

Any udder ideas?

good one!

I read someplace about using BS as filler, old time target shooters? I really don't recall.

 

[Shultzhaus]

I have several dairy farms near where I live. Maybe I could start a business of "recovering" the afore mentioned "material", and selling it to C&B loaders. Sounds like some of you are shooting it already.

 

[Elbert P . Suggins]

We sold our cattle in 97 but the location where we fed them during the winter has an endless supply of filler. We would take the Cat dozer and shove it off the concrete platform and just pile it up at the end. Even after 12 years you can still you this crap, but in the winter months it is wet so I have to shovel it into a bucket and bring it home, bake it on 330 degrees for 40 minutes with the fan on of course and then it is dry enough to grind up and then you store it in ziplock bags. It doesn't take much crap to get you thru the whole season. I have thought all along it has helped accuracy with my cowboy shooting because of the fact you can compress this stuff so tight. It is almost like the ball is spring loaded when it leaves the chute.

 

[pohill]

This isn't a "city slicker" prank post, is it? Fool the Easterners? Reminds me of the time that a friend of mine (from MA) went horseback riding in Utah for the first time and the good ole boys suggested that he ask for a "stump broke mule", which he did. That drew some hoots and howls...
"Yeah, I'd like some cow manure to put in my gun 'cause Elbert P. Suggins says it will shoot better."

 

[mykeal]

Nope. Dried manure and wasp nest material are both rather legendary overpowder materials. Seriously.

 

[bigbadgun]

Hell I have used the real bp and pyrodex and have not had a chain fire with either. And thats wad over powder and the right sized ball so it shaves the ring thats the only way I know to load and have never had a chain fire.

 

[Elbert P . Suggins]

It wasn't a city slicker prank post, pohill. And dad used to talk about stump broke mules when they settled out here but it was a forbidden subject and only brought up when the barn door was closed.

 

[pohill]

Well, OK. I believe you.
Maybe I'll try it next time I go jackalope hunting.

 

[messerist]

I have used the wasp nest material but have not been brave enough to try manure. I all seriousness, how does it smell when you shoot it? I have used dried "cow pies" as fuel for a fire and there was no odor. I suppose your dried manure would react the same way?